Masculinity with Carlos J. Malave, Jay Harris, Bryce Harris, and Casey J. Cornelius

November is Men's Health Awareness Month and a relevant time to talk about masculinity. Carlos J. Malave, Jay Harris, Bryce Harris, and Casey J. Cornelius sit down to talk about masculinity and dive deep into how their upbringing has molded their definition of the word.  With four different perspectives, the conversation unveils how men can be influenced by not only family, but coaches, mentors, and even television.

Transcript

Casey J. Cornelius (00:03):

Hey everyone and welcome to the latest episode of the ForCollegeForLife podcast. My name is Casey J. Cornelius. I am the Founder and President of ForCollegeForLife, and I get the distinct honor to interview the speakers and consultants and people who make us who we are. Now that we're in November, we thought that it would be appropriate to talk about a topic that's on a lot of people's mind and that centers around men and men's wellbeing. So the topic today as part of our, Can we Talk about This series, I get the distinct pleasure to interview some folks across some different generations and get their insights into healthy masculinity and the relationships that inform our views of manhood and masculinity. So without any further ado, I wanna bring to the mic three people. The first one, Carlos j Malave, the second, Jay Harris. And the third, a special guest today, Jay's son, Bryce. Guys, welcome to the mic. Welcome to the show.

Bryce Harris (01:04):

Thanks Casey. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for having us.

Casey J. Cornelius (01:07):

This is gonna be a lot of fun. So we are talking, one of the things, as we were just about to hit record, it occurred to me we have someone on this interview who's in their twenties, someone who's in their thirties, someone who's in their forties, and someone who's in their fifties. I will leave it to you as the listener to decide which, however, I recognize the fact that that also comes with some distinct perspectives on this idea of men in masculinity. So let me start with this and I'm, I'm gonna pitch it to Carlos first. Carlos, how do you define masculinity? What's your standard way of explaining it?

Carlos J. Malave (01:44):

That's a good one. I think when determining masculinity to me is ownership of self. I think when you can go into any space, any room ownership of who you are and proud to be it and being able to articulate that and move in a sense of with confidence with it. So when I look at that, there's a lot of little pieces that allow you to get to that place, but I think that's what identifies masculinity owning, Owning who you are, responsibility and account and willing to take accountability for yourself.

Casey J. Cornelius (02:25):

That's great. Jay, what about

Jay Harris (02:27):

Can Bryce go before me?

Casey J. Cornelius (02:29):

Yeah, absolutely.

Bryce Harris (02:32):

I don't really know what I would define masculinity as, to be perfectly honest. Cause when you ask the question and then as I was thinking to come up with an answer, the first things I came up with in my head were attributes, strength and being able to be provision to provide and knowing when to use those things. But those can be applied across. That's not just a masculine thing that those can be. Absolutely. Yeah. So I dunno, maybe I just have a broader view of what masculinity can be. Cause I remember growing up those are the things that you gotta be tough, you gotta be strong, you gotta be able to stand in front of everybody and take everything. And usually it comes with the detriment of your emotions and your, to express yourself, this, that, and the third. So I guess it would be, honestly, I don't really know if I have an answer for that right now

Casey J. Cornelius (03:34):

Actually. I appreciate that honesty, Bryce. And I think what's interesting that you reflected there, and I don't wanna dive too deeply right now cuz I know we're gonna get the chance to follow up. There are things that came to mind first and then you check those thoughts in terms of like, well yeah, but that could apply across the gender spectrum as well. Again, I think that that's a really interesting perspective on this. What about you Jay? How would you define masculinity?

Jay Harris (03:59):

Well, I wanted Bryce to go first cuz I wanted to copy off his paper. <laugh>

Casey J. Cornelius (04:04):

Smart

Jay Harris (04:05):

Man. Yeah, I know. But honestly I was having many of the same thoughts because I'm sitting here going through my head visions of masculinity that I saw growing up and I go back to my grandfather taking the man roles with my relationship with my grandmother and their farm and the things that he did on the tractor and with the animals. But then I think, well my grandmother did a lot of the same thing. She just didn't ride the tractor but she could shoot a gun and she knew how to handle the animals and he would come in and she would take care of the dinner part and he would eat and he would never do dishes. But she made me do dishes. But hey, I'm a man, why I gotta do the dishes? So it's like there's so many things that they just overlapped. I don't know. I'm not sure exactly what true and proper masculinity is if there is really such of a thing or have we just made it up.

Casey J. Cornelius (05:18):

Carlos, what do you think?

Carlos J. Malave (05:20):

Yeah, I love that and I love this conversation because a lot of the work that I do is about my situation with my father. So having a father and son on this recording is crazy. I love this aspect of having this communication with you guys. So I appreciate that. I think for me, growing up, seeing my father, my father grew up without a father. He grew up on the streets and he tried very hard to provide and fit the stereotype of what a man is supposed to do. And he struggled and I gotta see flip side of it. I got to see him show his emotions in front of me and break down. And then I seen him be able to wipe off his tears and then put up this front when he would walk outside in front of family or friends. So I saw the struggle from very, I remember being eight or nine and remembering like, Yo, there's something wrong with that.

(06:16):

Why can't he just be himself? And then him strug getting to a point of needing to go elsewhere to relieve the stress or be himself. So he went to alcohol and drugs to kind of say what he wanted to say, do what he wanted to do because he was caught in with this societal pressure of the idea of what a man is supposed to be and how a man is supposed to express himself that he battled. So I saw two sides of the coin. So Jay was saying with what he saw, his father, I saw my father struggle with those same conversations of arguing with my mom or what he should do and what he shouldn't do. And then I would see him show emotions that he really wanted to but he felt he couldn't. So growing up I saw that confusion as in like, hey, this is something wrong with the way we think masculinity is.

(07:13):

So when I gave my definition, it was more of what I see now because of what I've experienced and the nonsense that I saw growing up. Not only my father, many men around me struggled with the same thing. My father allowed me to see the struggles in other men like hey, he's really not coping well or he's not really addressing. So when I say ownership, that's what I mean. And not caring if you cry, not caring what people think, owning who you are as a man and that therefore whether it's washing dishes or doing different things, you own that. I wash dishes to this day. So it's crazy that Jay said that cuz I take pride in washing dishes and I'm like yo, that's what I do. I play my part and within my household. So yeah, that's what I just wanted to add that little story cuz Jay triggered that idea in my head

Bryce Harris (08:08):

And you triggered one for me too. I like washing dishes I like vacuuming I'll take it, do the dishwash, all those things. Because I like to, you know, work hard for something, you want to keep it clean, you wanna take care of it. Card <affirmative> everything, whatever family, kids in the bathtub, all that stuff. You wanna make sure the kids are clean because if they're dirty and yucky, that's not a good look. And it's, we're almost caught between what's not even caught between. We're caught in a societal definition of what a man is supposed to be and what a man is supposed to do.

(08:47):

And if we don't meet that societal definition in other people's eyes, then we're not masculine. But we are, I mean, crying is a good thing. Hugging is a good thing. Saying I love you is a good thing. All those things that you equate with femininity I hug my son all the time, I'll kiss my son on the cheek, I love him. And does that make me less masculine? No, makes me a loving father. Isn't that what I'm supposed to be? And that what I'm supposed to do. <affirmative>, can I follow up in a lot of ways? Yeah, go ahead. Case. Can I,

Casey J. Cornelius (09:22):

Yeah, I just wanna follow up with you on that cuz we, we've had personal conversations about this that just happened to not be recorded and put on a podcast, but how much of that do you think, if we were having this same conversation 10 years ago or 20 years ago, how much different would it have been do you think?

Jay Harris (09:42):

Personally, not much different. Cause all the things that I tried to do with Bryce my dad did with me.

(09:54):

So a lot of it, that part is learned. I mean I saw some bad habits that I tried not to not learn. Cause he would say do this and don't do that or these are the consequences because the honesty is also part of the masculinity or it is part of being a good parent, you know, bear yourself and you let 'em know that I make mistakes but I try to do better and be better. It's not all perfect but I'm always gonna be here for you <affirmative>. And I ask masculinity in a parental sense. I know that it goes deeper than that but that's what comes to my mind.

Carlos J. Malave (10:33):

And to piggyback off of that, I think 10 years ago it was the same thing. My father through my upbringing, he struggled but he sold me both sides. And it is crazy what Jay has said earlier too owning the feminine side as much as your masculine side. That's what I meant by owning it, owning both sides and that's what makes you the alpha. My wife, me and Jay, me and Casey talked about this and another conversation that was recorded. That's what my wife calls as the most masculine in the room because you own both sides of it and you're not afraid to just be you. My father, the best thing my father ever did was allow other men into my life to fill the gaps. He couldn't. And that right there opened up something for me. It was like, wow. I seen other men struggle with the pride of letting other men help raise your boy.

(11:31):

And I, I've seen men really baffled by that idea. But my father welcomed it. I remember having my coaches coach Rob and Coach Powell come over the house for Super Bowl Sunday and my father treated 'em like family and I used to stay over by them and when I used to train with them, he would allow me to stay with them and all of that. And I remember that being a part of my upbringing. I had other men be around me. So I think exposure to different types of households and the way men is important for men, for boys to see growing up to see hey, there's other ways of looking at it. And that allowed me to have the open mindedness to create who I am today as a father, as a son, as a brother, and just as a man.

Casey J. Cornelius (12:23):

I wanna bring you into this real quick. We're talking about these things across generations and I'm curious your insights out outside of your dad who just happens to be on this recording when you were young. I often use the eight years old when you were eight years old, who was the coolest man in the world. Who did you look up to and go like, Oh I wanna be like that guy when I grew up?

Bryce Harris (12:47):

I know you said outside of my dad cuz he's the one on the recording, but I really don't know many others outside of him. To be perfectly honest. The way I grew up is just cuz of dad's job. Most of our other family is in the south while we were up here in the north. So my grandparents were down there. So it was actually a thing that I kind of struggled with as a kid especially going home from school. Kids would talk about going to their grandparents houses or their aunts and their uncles and seeing their other family members and I just didn't have that. So I was really hyper focused on my dad. My situation is kind of a unique one in that way. So he was really the guy that I was like, I want to be him. Whenever I went to work with him, he was there for all of my games or all mys gymnastics meets. Whenever I won an award at school or did that or had a camp to go to, he was the person that was there. As far as familial relationships, I didn't really have another masculine figure in that way, which is all put on his shoulders.

(13:56):

You've had other people though. I have, but not like you. Well that's

Casey J. Cornelius (14:02):

One of a kind. For

Bryce Harris (14:04):

Sure. For sure. That's true. Yeah. I mean it's what it is. Something like that. Yeah. Jay, what

Casey J. Cornelius (14:08):

About you when you were young, who did you look up to as the epitome of what it meant to be a man

Jay Harris (14:19):

Question. I know I had a couple of people, my parents were divorced so I mean right there, I mean I had my grandfather I had my uncle Gene I had my uncle Joseph who was close Coach Van Hook, my basketball coach at school. I had my dad when we were together, summers, holidays. And he's the reason I actually decided to attend college where I did because I wanted to move. I wanted to be near him and move near him. So I had a few people that I looked up to and tried to take cues from as I tried to figure out this thing called life.

Casey J. Cornelius (15:14):

What about you, Carlos?

Carlos J. Malave (15:17):

Yeah the one I looked up to, the one in person that I looked up to was Coach Powell Smooth old black man that just was like, he was everything. He would go to the neighborhood. I first met him, my dad took me to Pace Park in Long Island when we first moved to Long Island from Brooklyn. And he took me to this park and everybody was getting coached up, but power was in the sense of it. And he introduced me and I remember he got the respect from everybody. He would get the respect from people that were doing the wrong things in the streets or whatnot. And then I would see him go to the school and to business corporations and he bought me along with him to be exposed to that and he would get the same respect. I'm like, Oh you can do that and you could be in both places and be respected and be seen.

(16:16):

I wanna be like that. So Coach Powell is, he's currently my father figure right now, him and Rob Coach Rob. After my dad passed in 2019 he's been the guy that I've been following since I was a kid and since I met him. Second would be I grew up on Fresh Prince and Martin. So those guys were it for me Will Smith. And the way through that show allowed me to see there was more out there as well. So him going to Uncle Phil's house and seeing there was a different way of doing things and you can reach your full potential by just being around difference and adjusting. So that kind of did that for me. And then Martin was being able to create something from nothing. The whole show is comical when I loved it. But with Martin, he had his own place, all his friends and he created something and with him and Gina having the relationship they did, he built his own family.

(17:23):

And it's ironic because I know Bryce was talking about the way he sees his father. I grew up in that. But I see how my daughter's being raised now and I'm the one consistent man in her life that she would probably feel the same way. Bryce feels about uja it like my dad did what he had to do for me, me. But I kind of like me and my wife's we moved from the north to the south, we moved from New York to Texas to create a better life for my daughter. Things that I didn't have growing up and all that. So I'm seeing it kind of made me realize in the moment of Bryce expressing himself in answering the question like, oh snap, like Ty is probably gonna feel that when she gets older. She's asked that question. So it gave me a different perspective in that moment.

Bryce Harris (18:19):

I was able to think of one more person while everybody was talking. It was I think my second ever gymnastics coach. Cause I was competitive gymnast when I was a kid. His name was Tom, I believe his name is Tom Green. And he was actually, now that I think about it and delve into it a little bit more. He was super, super formative. My first gym that I ever was in was not a good situation in terms of relation from the coaches to the people who were competing in gymnastics, coaches to the kids really. Cause we were all kids. We were very, very young. And now that I think about, it was kind of my first brush with authority figures in terms of I guess a sport. And it wasn't a very positive environment whatsoever. Honestly. It was kind of bordered on abusive sometimes. So when we got out of that gym and went to the second one and I met Tom, not only did he completely redefine what authority is supposed to be in that way as opposed to being negative, he was very, very gentle. He was, he was firm, but he knew how to be compassionate. He knew how to push you, when to push you when you were at the limit and how to push you past your limit when he saw something in you that you could not see for yourself. He was also very, very good at making sure that we were well-rounded people outside of just being gymnast, which is something I think my dad tried to instill in me. But some things just hit different when you hear it from other people that aren't your parents.

(19:52):

He made sure that our grades were good. He asked us what we were doing outside of the gym. He asked us how we were doing in school, what other extracurriculars we had on. We were full three dimensional people as opposed to just people who were doing a bunch of flips for him. He was very, very invested in our lives in a way that I really needed at that moment. The more I think about it, because I had a really celled look on people in that role until he came along and kind of changed that for me going forward.

Casey J. Cornelius (20:27):

I think it's interesting that when we start peeling back some of the layers about who we looked up to or who we admired or maybe who we looked to and thought that it was an image of manhood, masculinity, whatever cool guy, whatever it was. And maybe it was the wrong message. I know I talk about that in my own evolution as well, that we start thinking of more and more people. Bryce, your coach Carlos, yours, yours as well. We could probably think of teachers that we had or people that we knew in the community and so forth. One of the topics that I always think of as well is kind of the unwritten rules of manhood that we get taught along the way, the way that we're supposed to act and interact and so forth. And I, I'll throw it out here, anybody who wants to take it. Do you remember in your upbringing what some of the sort of unwritten rules that you were taught that men were supposed to do in certain situations?

Jay Harris (21:22):

You're supposed to walk on the street side so if a car comes you get hit ah way. That's a good one.

Carlos J. Malave (21:29):

Yeah, that's a good one.

Casey J. Cornelius (21:33):

Isn't that funny? Isn't that kind of funny too? It's like because you're expendable, no

Carlos J. Malave (21:37):

<laugh>,

Jay Harris (21:39):

Well then you get married and you learned that that's true,

Casey J. Cornelius (21:42):

Right? Well yeah, I mean there's a certain amount of truth to that, that's for sure. Carlos, you were jumping in.

Carlos J. Malave (21:48):

Yeah, I was gonna say something different as well that my wife brought to my attention. My wife has never taken out the trash and we've been together 10 years and I'm like dang, I didn't even notice. And that's just something that was instilled in me similar to walking on the same walking on the side of the street closer to the cars and all that. So I didn't even think about that until she bought it up. So when Jay said that I was like, Oh yeah, my wife had recently just said that she'd never taken out the trash cuz I'm just accustomed to, I have to take it out. I have to be the one to physically go outside in the dark and drop the trash in the trash can and make sure everything's okay and lock the doors and make sure the windows are shut as I walk back stairs to close off the night.

Casey J. Cornelius (22:35):

I'm also curious from your perspective, were there any of these unwritten rules that you came across in your upbringing?

Bryce Harris (22:42):

The walking on the side of the street was one. I was gonna say that's a good one. I don't really know if we had that many unwritten rules. I mean that's not the direction I thought that this question was going to go. To be perfectly honest when you said that, I was thinking of it in more in a negative sense in terms of negative reinforcements of masculinity, not showing emotions or that's where I thought you were gonna go with it. And I was going to say an emphatic no because that was never enforced on me. And when I grew up, especially going into middle school and high school and I met a lot of different kids cuz I went to elementary school in a fairly suburban area and I went to middle school and high school in the city. And when I saw the ways that a lot of these boys my age were raised when I went back home I had a totally different perspective cuz they just had to be tough all the time.

(23:45):

And a lot of it has to do with their upbringing. Cause again a lot of them grew up in the city in not very nice areas of the city and probably had that a lot of those stereotypes reinforce into them. But that was something I was honestly blessed enough to be in a situation where that's not something I ever had to indoor. So I never had it in that sense. I never felt like I had to lock anything away and not show it. I never felt like I had to not express myself in any way. I always felt like I had full control over my emotions and I've grown in my emotional maturity as they just getting older. But I realized how many people weren't even allowed to feel those kinds of things or think on that kind level and do that aware, had that kind of self-awareness and do that kind of internal reflection cuz it was seen as you were a girl. It was a feminine thing to just to look inward and do some self checkups every now and again. So I've never had to do anything like that because that was never taught to me.

Carlos J. Malave (24:58):

I think

Casey J. Cornelius (24:59):

What you're identifying there is really important. Bryce, I wanna pause on it for just a second, is your upbringing is one that fostered sort of a holistic full spectrum of accessible emotions to you, but also recognizing the fact that you had peers and so forth that were taught that they didn't have access to those things. <affirmative> Carlos, I know that this is something that's of particular interest to you

Carlos J. Malave (25:24):

Cuz I was one of those kids, I grew up in a household that my parents legit told me, Don't let nobody see what's going on inside your household. Whatever's happening here stays here. And I had to go, once I walk outside, I put the armor on and I had to eventually year by year, I have to learn how to take off the armor every year until I can finally just be myself. And I didn't really get there to college and it took me autumn years to finally just let go of that misconception of the cause. And I break this down when I speak, it's about if you don't talk about it when you leave the house and then you don't talk about it when you're in the house, when do you talk about it? You're essentially gonna make yourself go crazy with these thoughts that are just suppressed and therefore depression comes and these detrimental thoughts go through your head and you don't know how to deal with it.

(26:20):

And I think it's finding those spaces to be able to express what you're going through and how you're feeling. So I think when Bryce was talking about that, I remember me being in the playground and everybody, I had the privilege to look the way that I looked in a black and brown community and I just remember being told to not express what's going on with me. So I would smile and I'll force myself to act like I'm okay and I'm having a good time. So in my community everybody thought I was good. Even it's crazy, my wife met me when I was 22, 22, 23. And for the first five months of us knowing, she thought I had, cuz she grew up very different. One parent house told she had to learn through the struggle and she went through it and she had some crazy experiences. But when she looked at me she was like, she never even knew until she talked to my mom and my dad and my siblings like, oh snap.

(27:22):

Carlos actually went through stuff I didn't know he had to go through that stuff. And it was because of that training of don't let nobody see your pain. And realistically as Bryce was articulating it you don't become whole until you learn how to articulate that and break that down and do that. In my opinion, you don't become a real man until you really know yourself and reflect on those moments and show emotion and get there. You only can become stronger because you've cleanse yourself. And the more you cry, the more you cleanse, the more you understand them, therefore there is no fear behind it. So I appreciate Bryce breaking that down cuz what brought that emotion to me just now.

Casey J. Cornelius (28:16):

Jay, what about you do, I mean, do you remember in your upbringing things that were taught that off limits to you that you didn't have access to as being a boy or young man in society?

Jay Harris (28:34):

Probably the only things I was, I'm the oldest of three boys raised by a single mom. Probably the only things that were pushed out of reach were to a degree or the extra childhood things. Cause it was always impressed upon me as the oldest. I had to be responsible. I had to take care when my mother wasn't there. She worked home, got home late and I know my grandparents were right next door essentially. But it was up to me. I was never the man of the house, but I was responsible for the other two in the house. So I couldn't be a kid all the time. I always had to be like, all right, lemme make sure these two knucklehead eat and if they want some more food and there's some food left and it's on my plate, I guess I have to share and I'll just deal with it. Stuff like that. I wouldn't say that I had to grow up really quickly, but in a lot of ways I did. Cuz I was given responsibility at a young age. So I couldn't necessarily be all the way a kid, which is probably, I'm kind of goofy and silly now.

Casey J. Cornelius (30:04):

Making up for lost time.

Jay Harris (30:06):

Really? Yeah, really now that I think of it, that's probably why I am the way that I am. And I have the friends that I have and gravitate towards the fun and the comedy and the things that I gravitate towards. Cause I really couldn't do it when I was younger.

Casey J. Cornelius (30:23):

I guess I'm gonna ask Bryce to reflect on that. Do you see that in your dad now? Obviously you didn't know him back then, but do you see that in him

Bryce Harris (30:31):

Now? I definitely do see it in him now. Excuse me. I definitely see it in him now. That makes a lot of sense actually. That makes almost too much sense <laugh>. And I can also, maybe not fully, but definitely in some way relate to it. Cuz also as the oldest and not just as the oldest but I was an only child up until, I think I was around seven, eight years old. So I was with adults all the time. Whenever I was with my parents, I didn't have a choice that they just couldn't lead me. So I was there. So I can really relate to having to grow up fast, which probably helped me in terms of understanding how to be more well-rounded and how adults are from a very young age and what makes them tick. But also I'm a lot more goofy and silly I feel like now than back then. And I'm only 23. I feel like I'm kind of making up for a lost time and it hasn't even been that long. So yeah,

Casey J. Cornelius (31:41):

It's all you.

Carlos J. Malave (31:42):

Yeah, that I love that. Cause I think I connect with both of y'all cause I was the oldest of three and without anyone appointing me, I just took the role of protector when things would go down in my household or my dad wouldn't show up for days and my brother and sister would be scared or be fearing that something happened, I would automatically assume the role of protector and I would calm them down and I would tell 'em things to distract themselves and get them motivated to do what they have to do so they can get out. And I remember that just being something I just took on and no one ever told me. So it's just that pressure of being the oldest different and to siblings all the time. And it's always that older sibling pressure that is always similar in common. You just assume certain roles or you were around the parents before everybody else came around.

(32:53):

So you understand things a little differently than they do. So you can break it down to them where they can understand. And it was always that conflict of, And then my siblings would always be like, Oh, he's the favorite. And they would be like, Nah, I just understand them. I know how to talk to them. And it was just, it always that type of pressure that was always on. So when you guys talking about that that brought that to my mind. The pressures that I had growing up that no one put on me, I just took them on and it just was natural being the oldest to just go ahead and play those roles.

Casey J. Cornelius (33:30):

I've loved so much of this conversation. I feel like we could have had it sitting around the table eating a meal or at the barbershop. I listen, I know Carlos and I don't go to the barbershop as much as some other guys, but I feel like this would've been a good spot for it. For those of you who have not yet checked out Jay and Carlos's signature work, please go ahead and visit for concert for life.com. You won't yet find Bryce on the webpage, but after a conversation like this, who knows, maybe one day you'll find him there as well. Yes, guys, this is November. There is a lot of focus on men's health and wellbeing. So I want to ask you a question that is long looking like long range and I'm gonna ask Carlos to jump in on it first thinking about the next generation of men, whether they've been born yet or in their young years now, what is your greatest hope for them?

Carlos J. Malave (34:28):

That they have more exposure than we did sooner. Exposure to different ways of going about things and different ways of defining masculinity and that's okay. And being able to have a library of different things to go to that we weren't exposed to. Cause I think what we said earlier, you asked us what would've been different 10 years ago, was the exposure. You see so many podcasts, so many shows touching on this topic of men being vulnerable and owning the power and vulnerability all over now. And that wasn't around 10 years ago when we were trying to figure it out. And although we were building that you couldn't turn on the television and just hear it or listen to it in the songs that we're listening to now and podcasts. So I think that's the biggest thing. The hope is that the exposure keeps on getting bigger and broader and therefore the kids, the boys can grow up and hear it sooner. So therefore it'll be something that is normalized, like crying and expressing emotion and everything that we thought was a bad thing for being men.

Bryce Harris (35:51):

Bryce, what about you? Well, before I say what I'd like to say, I just wanted to talk to Carlos real quick and say that that's already happening and I'm proof of it. But the advancement technology really is something, and being connected to so many people at the clickable button gives you access to so many different perspectives. And it's to the point that once you come into contact with something to act like you didn't see it, it's just kind of kidding yourself to come into with a new way of thinking about something. Especially something like masculinity to hear something that challenges maybe how you were brought up. Yeah, you can cry, you can do this, how you can do that, maybe you won't change in that instant, but there's definitely gonna be a seed planted and that's gonna get watered over time depending on what you expose yourself to.

(36:45):

So that's definitely already happening. My hope is gonna be that we just take that and run with it because we could have the opportunity to be better. We have so many things that our fingertips, we have everybody's thoughts on, things are changing all the time and we're exposed to it and we have the choice to be better. So I would like us to do that. My friend group, I would say is about 89, 85 to 90% women. I'm friends with a lot of women and they have taught me more than almost anybody in this world outside of my family. The number one thing that I always hear that's usually consistent from all the conversations that I have when it comes with relat people's relationships to men is that the stuff that we're going through when it comes to not not having our emotions in check, not being self-aware, being afraid to do that kind of check within us, not only is it hurting us, it's hurting other people and it's hurting other people to an extent that there's a reason why people lose faith in men.

(37:59):

There's a reason why people generalize men in one blanket statement. It's the same reason why a lot of black people do the same to white people cause you've been hurt over and over and over again. And we have the ability to stop doing that, to take a pause, to stop talking a lot to listen, not just to other people, but to ourselves. Stop listening to maybe what you were taught as a kid and listen to what you've been suppressing that entire time that's inside of yourself. My hope would be that we are able to be better and maybe be the first in breaking any generational traumas, any things that were passed down from our parents to us and start a different cycle going forward. Because it's possible. And I've seen it and I'm part of it, and it's really frustrating when I see things continuing that people know are harmful or know are stereotypical or know are negative because it doesn't help anybody.

(39:02):

And not only are you hurting you, you're hurting yourself and you're hurting the perception of who you are on a broader scale. And it doesn't need to be that way. And it's maybe not the easiest thing to change sometimes, but that's life. So you can either be rigid or you can learn to be more fluid and you're gonna end up benefiting in the long run from it. So I really hope that 20 years from now there's can be a clear shift that we're gonna be able to look back on and be like, Yeah, that's when that started and we're in a better place now because of it.

Casey J. Cornelius (39:39):

Jay, I have no idea how, but you get to follow that.

Jay Harris (39:43):

I'm gonna tell you, Casey, I'm gonna be glad when I find out who his real father is. I'm gonna shake you. <laugh>.

Casey J. Cornelius (39:49):

That boy was raised,

Jay Harris (39:50):

Right? Yeah. I was, Whoa. I don't know how I'm gonna follow do, okay. There's one thing. Why have one hope? And it's, it's not limited to the next generation of men for the next generation. And it's because of technology and because of technology. We have the ability at the touch of a button to reach out and be wherever, whatever, talk to whoever, blah, blah, blah. But I want us to not get so comfortable with technology. And don't forget that people need to be around people and people need to talk to people in person and touch people and hug people and cry with people and laugh with people and argue with people in person and do all that stuff in person. I don't want us to get to y'all see the movie, Wally? Yep. I don't want us to be that so technologically dependent that we forget that we are human beings and people and that we can do things and affect things and affect change and make things happen because it's in us. Kind of like where Bryce was just saying. So that would be my only thing. That would be my only thing, but I really, That was a bad try to follow what he said cause that was really good. What he said.

Casey J. Cornelius (41:21):

It was really good. It was really good. Hope y'all mind. I'm gonna toss it in one right now. And I know I'm breaking the rule of the question, but I don't even know if I want this to wait till the next generation. I think this November, as we think about men's health and wellbeing my greatest hope is that we can make help seeking the norm. I think many of us have been taught for a long time that seeking help is a sign of weakness. And instead I want us to see that help seeking is a sign of desiring more strength. And I got a shout out the November Foundation to do a lot of work with them, love their mission of keeping men alive. I think that we need to acknowledge the fact that men have a disproportionate amount of mental health issues deaths by suicide an untreated trauma.

(42:12):

Carlos, I know that's near and dear to your heart as well. And my greatest hope is that the men of this generation and the next can reflect the things that our Bryce is saying in this conversation. Man, it filled my heart. Just hearing that perspective is out there. I hope it becomes universal for sure. Guys, I mean this from the absolute bottom of my heart. I feel like that this is a conversation that could go on hours and hours but I appreciate you. Let me give you an opportunity to shout out where folks can connect with you best. Jay, I'll let you go first work and folks best connect with you

Jay Harris (42:53):

Social media, jayharrisespn, that's Twitter and Instagram. And my big head is on LinkedIn too so that was probably the three best places.

Casey J. Cornelius (43:05):

Carlos, how about you?

Carlos J. Malave (43:07):

And for me is Carlos j Malave. You can find me under that name. Make sure you put the J in the middle. CJmotivation.com or CJ Motivation on Instagram. It was a pleasure having this conversation. I love having these conversations. Thank you for having me, Jay. Bryce, Casey, as always I love this work and I hope people listening get something out of it and it sparks a conversation within the men in your lives.

Casey J. Cornelius (43:36):

A hundred percent. Bryce, I think you have the coolest handle of anybody on this recording. So do you wanna shout out how folks can connect with you as well?

Bryce Harris (43:44):

Oh, if you want to connect with me, my Instagram, and I think my Twitter too is IceBryce_baby I ice Bryce underscore baby. And yeah, I'd be happy to talk about this more if I like to talk about it because I have these conversations fairly often and it never gets old and it needs to happen cuz you're kind of sick of the way things are. So

Casey J. Cornelius (44:08):

I love it. Again, that's iceBryce_baby Bryce with a y, cuz that's the only way that you can spell it. There you go.

(44:15):

There you go. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please do the things that you're supposed to do with the podcast, like and share and subscribe and comment and all that other kind of stuff please tune in for more. And also let us know if there are topics that you would like to hear us explore in ForCollegeForLife podcast, or specifically in the Can we talk about this series? Guys, for the bottom of my heart, it's been absolute pleasure talking with you and folks, until next time, you all be well, be safe and we can't wait to hear from you again.