Matt Kovatchis: From Corporate Banking to Heart-Led Leadership

Matt Kovatchis shares his powerful journey from the high-pressure world of corporate banking to becoming a mental health and self-compassion speaker who empowers students to lead with heart. Matt opens up about ignoring his inner voice, confronting shame, and ultimately finding freedom through vulnerability and acceptance. His story reveals why true leadership begins with self-love and how shifting from critic to coach can transform not only our own lives but the way we show up for others.

Matt's Programs: http://forcollegeforlife.com/matt

Matt's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-kovatchis-cpcc-1b74b3aa/

Matt's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mkovatchis23/

Transcript

Matt Podcast

Casey J. Cornelius: [00:00:00] Hey everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of the For College for Life podcast. My name is Casey Cordius. I'm the founder and president for College for Life, America's leading college speaking agency, and I also get the opportunity and privilege to host this podcast and introduce you to the speakers and facilitators and consultants, the people who help us earn that reputation each and every day.

And one of my favorite things like one, one of my true joys in this podcast is introducing you to voices you might not have heard before. And today's episode does exactly that. I really look forward to where this conversation is going to lead, because I will tell you every time we hit record, I learned something new about our team members.

So, without any further ado, let me, let me take a second and introduce you to our guest today. Matt [00:01:00] Kovacis is an ex-corporate banker, turned mental health and self-compassion speaker, coach, and entrepreneur. He empowers students across the country to become heart led leaders. It's not a great phrase, by the way.

Heart led leaders through eye-opening and inspirational keynotes on self-compassion, emotional intelligence, and self-love. Prior to speaking, Matt spent seven years in corporate banking at multinational banks, giving him a front row seat to the stress and emotional suppression, often mistaken for strength.

Externally, he had the dream life checking all the boxes of what success was supposed to look like internally, though he was miserable, empty, and alone, this led him on a journey of healing self-discovery. Self-acceptance, some stuff that I'm sure we're going to get in today. He's best equipped to serve the person we once were, exactly what Matt does today.

He's also the founder and host of a top 1% mental [00:02:00] health podcast, the Man in the arena with Matt Kovacs and md and the author of Enjoying Your Own Company, A 75 Day Guide to Self-Love Journal. I gotta be on my Ps and Qs 10 being a podcast host as well. So here we go. One last bit. Matt graduated from the University of Illinois Urbana Champagne in 2017, and is a proud member of Alpha Tall Omega, known for having never met a stranger.

When he's not speaking, you can find him exploring new coffee shops, consuming Japanese sweet potatoes, or hanging with his rescue dog Patty. So without any further ado, let me bring Matt to the mic. Matt, how did I do with that intro? Uh, was was it all right? Did I, did I, did I land it? Okay? 

Matt Kovatchis: Uh, you know, I, I wouldn't mind being introduced like that everywhere, Casey.

No, that was, uh, you nailed it. There was, uh, a lot there and I got to do a little self-reflecting of like, wow, yeah, you're right. Like, I kind of did all those things and I'm doing all those things and so I, uh, I appreciate the warm introduction and I'm very, [00:03:00] very, very grateful to be here, but also to be a part of, uh, the for College for Life team.

So I'm very excited. 

Casey J. Cornelius: Yeah, this is exciting because Matt is, as many of you might be aware, Matt is the newest member of our team and he's someone who I don't wanna say, has come out of nowhere 'cause that's not true. He is done a, a ton of groundwork and foundational work, but has really sprung onto the scene of speaking right.

In order to understand what you speak about, Matt, I, I guess we probably need to go back in your origin story just a little bit, right? So you talk about doing programs, keynotes on self-compassion, emotional intelligence, and self-love. But I suspect the origin story of that comes from some experiences that you've had along the way as well.

So at what point would you like to start your origin story? 

Matt Kovatchis: Yeah, I, that's a great question. And you're, you're spot on. I, I never chose or never thought I was going to become a [00:04:00] coach, a, a keynote speaker, uh, mindfulness facilitator that was never in the plans, if you will. I always thought of myself as a future NBA player that quickly was squashed once I, you know, kind of came down to reality and then wanted to.

Become a corporate banker, if you will, and, and go into the world that my mom did. And through a long journey, I, I slowly realized kind of who I was through everything that I wasn't. Um, I kind of took the path of doing everything I thought I was supposed to do only to achieve everything I was told would make me a success and make me happy.

And kind of was looking around, was like, what the heck's going on here? I've done everything I've been told by friends, family, society, and here I am, empty, miserable, and alone. And so I kind of felt like my back was up against the wall at that point, and I had no choice [00:05:00] but to wake up, do the inevitable, do the thing that had been kind of itching and scratching at me.

You know, that little voice that we have inside of us. It was once very, very, very quiet, and it was whispering and eventually got louder and louder and louder. Eventually I had no choice but to accept myself and we can get more into what that voice was and what it was telling me to do. But that's kind of how I stumbled upon this whole personal growth leadership speaking world.

I never chose it. I always tell people like, this world chose this, this industry chose me through my own, uh, struggles and pain. 

Casey J. Cornelius: You know, you talk about that little voice, I think, um. Sometimes I refer to it as like the B roll or, you know, the, the, the conversation that's happening from, from the left ear to the right ear.

I, I suspect, as you say, somewhere along the way, you, you heard some whispers from that voice potentially saying, Hey, Matt, you're, you're not on, you're not on the right path. Did, did you stifle that? Did you [00:06:00] ignore it? Were you in, in disbelief thinking that this was the destination that you were intending?

Like, what, what was, what was that dynamic? 

Matt Kovatchis: Yeah, so there were a couple different areas in my life where I think I was very resistant to that inner voice, if you will. Uh, you know, some people call it a gut feeling and intuition. One of the areas being the career field that I was in. So, like I said, I got into, I majored in economics, minored in business, and.

Got into a job in corporate banking outta school, largely because, you know, my mom was, and still is very successful in that space. And so she sounded super smart growing up. Didn't know what she was saying, was using a bunch of big words though. That sounded cool. Important and smart. Yeah, I was like, you know what?

Like I wanna go be like that. I wanna go be like mom without really exploring who I really was. So I did and I landed, you know, what I thought was my dream job, and pretty quickly realized that I didn't like what I did, but I didn't know what I did like because I didn't know [00:07:00] who I was. And so I kind of just stuck it out, you know that thought, that's just what you did.

You make money during the week, you're unhappy while you do it. You live for the weekend stuff. The struck get the Sunday scaries, rinse and repeat over and over again. And that inner voice was kind of telling me like, Matt, you're. You're not supposed to be here. I'm not really sure where you're supposed to be, but I know you're not supposed to be here.

And anytime I heard that voice or I felt that inner discomfort, I told myself, you know, suck it up. You got another promotion to hit. You got more money to make. And the other area of my life where it was quite loud was, you know, I was in a relationship, a four year relationship was, had had, was living with the person at the time.

And in my gut, I just, I knew I wasn't. I knew it wasn't the right relationship for me. And not only that, the, that voice that continued to get louder was telling me that, Hey, Matt, like, you know, you're bisexual. And that was extremely difficult [00:08:00] for me to come to terms with because I had grown up in a world where in, in, you know, my environment where to be anything other than straight was something to be ashamed of.

Something was wrong, um, was something to be humiliated of, embarrassed of. And so as I got to kind of know myself a little bit better into my college years, I was like, oh, we got a problem here because I think I'm this way. I'm pretty sure I'm this way. You know, your gut feeling and at the same time, to be this way is something to be ashamed of.

So we, I, I kind of, the rubber met the road and so yeah, I, I, I resisted quite heavily. I went and looked into, uh, conversion therapy. I mean, I did everything to deny what I knew to be true. And eventually, um, you know, I got out of that relationship, uh, which was freeing and, you know, to feel liberated for the first time.

That was one step. But, um, I got a bunch [00:09:00] of external validation. I remember the summer of 2021, you know, it was Matt Summer. Summer Matt, he's single for the first time. And I was getting all the love from friends and getting hyped up. And then the su and then the winter came around where no one's really going out anymore.

It's Chicago. And all that validation wore off, and I realized I was just as empty that I had ever felt. And there was really only one choice at that point, and that was to come out and accept myself. And it was there that, you know, my life kind of started to kind of drastically change overnight. 

Casey J. Cornelius: So, Matt, for, for folks who are listening to this podcast, my hunch is that some of the elements of what you just described are, are resonating, but I want to paint the, the broad picture, right?

So. We go to college, uh, we're, we're a joiner. Uh, we're a TO Um, we're double major. We, we land our, the job that we think we're supposed to, we're, we're, um, in a relationship that we think that we're supposed to be in, in a city. That's awesome. All, all that other kind of stuff. And [00:10:00] yet there's this moment, we call it a break or you know, a rip or what, whatever you want to, a moment where all that changes.

What, what did that that feel like? Did it feel freeing? Did it feel scary? Did it feel Oh, free, free, freeing, and scary. Yeah. All. What was that moment? All, 

Matt Kovatchis: all of the above. I mean, there were a couple different moments. Obviously getting out of the relationship was, was really challenging and I, and I learned a lot about myself through that period.

But I mean, too. To break someone's heart. Ultimately, you know, broke mine and it was, it was extremely painful in a lot of ways. But on the other side of that was freedom and what I knew to be the right choice, not just for me, but for her as well. In terms of, and then as we fast forward in terms of, I remember the first text message that I ever sent to was to my sisters, to my younger twin [00:11:00] sisters coming out.

I always knew I have a great relationship with my younger sisters, my family, I knew they would always be supportive, but when you have so much shame, I had so much shame built around who I, who I thought I was, that I couldn't even fathom accepting myself and coming out to anybody. And so I still remember sending that text message.

I was sitting, I was back at my parents' house, don't remember why, but I was and sent this long message kind of coming out and um, it was. I mean, there were tears stringing down my face as I sent the message. I had hid Casey. I had hid it so well, who I was again, I tell my sisters everything except for this one thing.

They thought I was joking. They responded and were like, before we like really like answers, like, are you, I know you, you know, you're goofy. Like, are you being serious? And I was like, yeah, I, I, you know, I wish I wasn't, but I was. Um, obviously they were incredibly supportive. You know, I think their hearts were [00:12:00] broken for me, and, um, slowly but surely I started to, you know, at my own pace, uh, kind of come out to close friends and family.

I, I started going to therapy, which was, gosh, incredibly painful. I really had to break myself down, like fully everything I thought I knew about myself and then build up. Not really this new version of me, but the version of me that I had always been without suppressing all the parts that I felt were inadequate about myself.

So, to answer your question, it was painful, it was challenging. I used to despise having to go to therapy for the first few months, and it was also extremely liberating. It was extremely freeing. It felt like such a weight off my shoulders. I think literally mentally and physically like I had developed chronic stress.

I was, had a face full of acne. I mean, there were so many ways that this part of [00:13:00] me and holding it in and so much holding it, all those emotions associated with it just rippled into all the different areas of my life. And so, yes, all of the above. Um, but ultimately on the other side of a lot of that pain.

Was, you know, love, a new found sense of, of purpose and clarity and a vision for my life. 

Casey J. Cornelius: You know, I'm, I'm sitting here listening to this and it's, it's almost like I, um, I'm sure other people listening to it feel this way too. It's, it's almost like wish it could go back in time and, and put an arm around your shoulder at that moment and tell you like, everything's gonna be okay.

Like, you, you're, you're going to, um. Discover, you know, why all of these trials, why, why all of, uh, this, this whisper's been going on in your, in your mind. And, you know, fast forward to today and, and maybe, maybe part of that why is, um, for you to help others who are going through the same process? Um, I, I want to get [00:14:00] into some of your, your signature work, Matt.

Um, but for those of you who might not yet be familiar, please make sure you check out for college for life.com/matt. Uh, learn more about him. Keynotes, signature programs, all that other kind of stuff. Um, I, I wanna start with the, the kind of the goal level program. Stop beating yourself up. Um, that's, that's a phrase that people, uh, toss out there sort of, um, randomly haphazardly as, as an attempted advice for folks.

But, but what does it mean to you, like when, when you're saying to, to others, and my hunch is probably to yourself, uh, stop beating yourself up. What, what's, what's your message? 

Matt Kovatchis: Yeah, I think the, the kinder we are to ourselves or what I've realized, you know, this is all through lived experience and then, you know, wanting to share what's, what's worked for me.

And also, you know, doing a bunch of research on this stuff. Kristen Neff does a lot of work on self-compassion that I leverage. Um, [00:15:00] what I've realized is that it's extremely difficult to be kind to other people when you aren't kind to yourself. Is, it's exhausting. And I'm speaking from personal experience.

I remember like, why do some people just look so joyful? And they're so uplifting to themselves and to other people, and it looks so effortless. And then meanwhile, I always, you know, I've been instilled good morals by, by family. Like I, I wanna be nice and kind to other people, but it feels so challenging.

It feels so exhausting. It feels almost inauthentic. Mm-hmm. And. What I realized is I was going to war with myself every single day, every night my head hit the pillow. I was, you know, why are you this way? I was like, this is something to be ashamed of. You're not, this isn't who you are. Like, figure it out.

I was just, I was treating myself so poorly and then expecting myself to go show up, you [00:16:00] know, for other people, and, and it's really challenging to do that. And it burned me out. Like I said, I became chronically stressed and was relying on all sorts of stuff, um, just to go to bed and then wake up and I never slept.

And a lot of it, I think, stemmed from the, the relationship that I had with myself. And so the punchline to everyone that I deliver this, this message to is I think we all can agree we want. We wanna show up with love and we wanna show up for other people, and we don't want it to feel exhausting. And so the kinder we treat ourselves, the kinder, we naturally treat others because you're pouring from a full cup.

You're filling up your cup with self-love, and then you're pouring effortlessly into other people. And so I just realized in my personal life that I was being so hard on myself. I thought that was just normal. I thought that's just what you did. Like, you're just hard on yourself. You're always, you're always criticizing yourself.

[00:17:00] You're bullying yourself in order to get where you want to go. You know, shame was my fuel, but it's dirty fuel, it's unsustainable, and so I think it's pretty eye-opening for the people that I serve. Where I have them all raise their hands when I ask them. Like I basically, I basically asked them, Hey, let's do a little reflection.

Your best friend's coming to you for support. Like what would you say to them? Maybe like they made a big mistake, they're suffering. Like what would you say to them? How would you show up for them? What's your energy like with them? And then I tell them to look at the same scenario, but this time it's not happening to your friend.

This time it's happening to you. How are you showing up for yourself? What types of things are you saying to yourself? What's your energy, tone of voice like with yourself? And when I ask people to raise their hand, if the way in which they show up for their friend is more supportive than the way in which they show up for themselves, I've yet to walk into a room where 95%, at least of the hands in the room get [00:18:00] raised.

Casey J. Cornelius: Right, right. 

Matt Kovatchis: And, and, and to me that that is illuminating the problem at its finest. And, um, you know, I've just realized that, you know, we spend more time with ourselves than anybody else, so you might as well at least enjoy your own company and giving yourself a little bit of grace, reminding yourself that like to struggle is to be human.

Um, you know, was incredibly impactful for me and I think it's incredibly, incredibly impactful for those that I serve. 

Casey J. Cornelius: You know, in the course of these, these interviews, every once in a while there's a. There's, there's a moment that sticks out and I think to myself, like, oh, this is probably going to be the clip that gets used.

Uh, and when you say, uh, shame was my fuel, but it's a dirty fuel. Like that's, that's a sledgehammer statement because I think, you know, many of us can resonate with it. Yeah. I have a hypothesis we're run it by you, but like, I think. Most of us, you said 95%. I think that that's probably a pretty accurate, um, the, the conversation that goes [00:19:00] on again, between that left and the right ear, we say some, some stuff to ourselves that we would never imagine saying to anybody else.

Like if we said those things out loud to another human being, um, it would break every. Cultural norm, and we'd be throwing hands with, with every, everybody we come into contact with. But like, so, so in the course of this exploration, uh, the, this study, why, why do you think it is that we continue, you know, to, as you say, to to bully ourselves to, to say these, these horrible things to ourselves that we couldn't imagine ever saying to anyone else?

Matt Kovatchis: I think it's a couple different things. I think one, it's normalized. Again, it's, we've, we've deemed it as normal to treat yourself the way we do relative to others, which to me, like if you just think about it logically doesn't make a whole lot of sense because like I said, we're, we have to spend every waking moment with ourselves, not everybody else.

And [00:20:00] I think the other reason is it's what was learned through experience. So whether it's from a caregiver, whether it's from a teacher, whether it's from, uh, a, a poor coach, if you will, when we're young, we're very impressionable. And if you were criticized every single time, you weren't perfect or you weren't achieving or you weren't successful, well then.

Growing up, you're gonna criticize yourself when you do the same, when you're, when you don't feel you're successful, when you don't feel like you got the best grades you could have gotten. And instead of treating yourself like a coach, you treat yourself like a critic in the same way that you were criticized growing up.

So I think a lot of it is learned behaviors from the way in which we were raised. Now, no judgment towards. Whether it's a caregiver, uh, an educator, a coach, whoever it might be that might have taught you that it's okay to speak to yourself that way. [00:21:00] Uh, no judgment. And it's also our responsibility to recognize that that isn't serving us anymore, right?

Like it may have served us in a past life when we didn't really respect ourselves. And, but, but not, not now. So I always tell people like, treat your, treat yourself. Treat that inner voice like a, like a coach, not a critic. I mean, think about if you were, I don't know, in solitary confinement with one other person, and in order to get out you had to.

Gosh, I'm making this up now. Uh, you had to do a, do you have, you have to do a Rubik's Cube. Okay. Yeah. You have to complete a Rubik's cube and you're with one other person, and that person in one scenario is focusing on every single mistake you make, critiquing you, and criticizing you in your ear constantly.

And the other person is coaching you up, praising you when you do well. Maybe offering constructive feedback in a compassionate way like. [00:22:00] Which version, which person do you think you're gonna do better with? Yeah. And I think the answer's pretty obvious, but yet our voice inside of us is often that critic, and so a lot of it is just bringing awareness.

Like to me, that's the first biggest, most important step is just awareness. Awareness that like everything that that goes on up here, just because you thought it doesn't mean it's true. And from there then we can start to reframe and reshape how we view ourselves, the relationship we have with ourselves.

But it starts with just becoming aware. 

Casey J. Cornelius: Matt, I, I'd love this and I, I think, um, I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that a lot of people who are listening to this right now probably, uh, really resonate with that, especially the. The necessity of, um, more positive, affirming self-talk. Right? Um, I think too often we've heard the phrase like tough love.

You know, if, if, if. Tough love isn't rooted in love, then it's just tough, right? Like, it's just, [00:23:00] it's just punishment, it's just, um, just negative for the sake of being negative. Uh, folks, if you wanna learn more, make sure that you check out for college for life.com/matt, MATT. By the way, it is Kovacs, um, don't mispronounce his last name.

It is Matt Kovacs. Matt, we have a, a bit of an intersection in terms of, um. Our interests and that that centers on, um, the, a topic broadly defined as healthy masculinity. And it does my heart really well, brings a smile to my face to see, you know, what I would consider you as sort of the, the next generation of the people who are talking about healthy masculinity.

And I wonder if you can frame that. As it relates to the permission to feel work that you do, especially not exclusively, but especially with, um, with young men. 

Matt Kovatchis: Yeah, I mean, I, and, and I love all the work that you're doing. I, I would [00:24:00] say, you know, from my perspective as someone that recently got into the field, like when I got into this field, I kind of viewed you as the pioneer in, in the leader in the space.

So, uh, I want to give you your flowers because you know, I had no. There was no bias in terms of me coming into this, this industry. I came in totally blind and you stood out as someone that really modeled, um, you know, healthy masculinity and the work you're doing. So I I, I just wanna give you your flowers there, Casey.

Thank you. Thank you. I would say, you know, the, the angle or where I focus when it comes to permission to feel is really around the relationship with our emotions, you know, especially as men. And so, you know, I think about my own life and growing up and really not having a safe space to feel every time that, uh.

I was maybe feeling challenging emotions. I don't even wanna call 'em good or bad 'cause they're not, you know, negative [00:25:00] emotions serve their purpose as well. Right. Um, but just being met with either suck it up or you're making a big deal. Uh, so basically telling me that it is not okay to feel, especially the negative ones.

And so early childhood experiences. On top of broadly society and what men are told in terms of when it comes to emotions, they're weak, don't feel them. Uh, asking for help means basically you're a failure, like you've lost the game of life. All of these different beliefs led me to become so disconnected from who I am, from who I was because emotions.

A compass. They are signals, they're energy. And what I realized is that when we suppress our emotions, they don't just go away. I wish they did, but they don't. Right? They get, they get buried [00:26:00] alive and they get stored in our bodies. They get stuck. It's energy, they get stuck. And every time that we don't say what we, we know we wanna say to somebody or we.

Say yes to something we really wanna say no to. And resentment builds and we don't express that emotion and we just throw it away like it bottles up and that energy bottles up. And it bottles up. And eventually we lose total control. And so I, and, and we lash out and we wonder why we lashed out over something that seemed quote unquote minuscule.

And so I think what I realized is that, I mean, I ultimately became emotionally numb. Meaning, which, which sounds kind of. Uh, it's like, I don't even know the right word for it, like paradoxical, but basically what I realized is that when we, when we don't allow ourselves to feel the bad, we also can't allow ourselves to feel the, the emotions we, we wanna feel.

Yeah. The love, the joy, the happiness. And so I was just numb. Yep. [00:27:00] And I was also completely disconnected from myself because I was completely disconnected from my emotions. And so that, the long story short is really helping men reshape their relationship and everybody, but men specifically reshape their relationship.

With their emotions, what it means to show emotions, breaking down the myths and then giving, giving them a safe space to feel, um, which leads to a lot of tears. Yeah. But tears aren't bad. And then I hear, well, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for, for crying. Right. And it's like, don't be sorry, it's just energy. I'm here.

I'm with you. Um, so I, I, that, that's kind of my perspective. I'd be curious your approach to, to healthy masculinity as well. But when it comes to emotions, I just know I, I had such a tainted view on, on what, what they were and what it meant to show them, and that they were a sign of weakness. And, you know, I mean, yeah, I, I can assure you that, you know, feeling all the feels going to therapy for the first time, accepting myself that was.[00:28:00] 

Some of the hardest times of my life that took so much courage and strength, um, rather than continuing to suppress. So, uh, really just helping men, one feel, and two, reshape the relationship, what they have, their emotions. It can lead to some pretty transformational, um, experiences in a pretty short period of time.

Casey J. Cornelius: You know, I, I, I think. Matt, what what you're reflecting is kind of the way that I think about this too. I mean, we are, um, we are sponges, right? Like as, as individuals and we are learning constantly from the, from the time we born to the time we die, we're, we're learning the, the cues about what is, um, acceptable, what is right, what is good.

And you know, these, these come from family and they come from peers and media and all, all these other, all these other entities, right? And what. I often talk about is if we can disrupt that narrative about what we're supposed to do in any given situation, and [00:29:00] give access to even, even just a slightly broader spectrum of acceptable reactions.

You know, how much of a longer, healthier, happier life might we live? Um, when, when we give ourself that permission. Now for me, sometimes I frame it around the idea of, you know, asking the second question, right? Like, so, so listeners, and, and again, this applies to men, but it certainly is not exclusive to men by any stretch of imagination.

We all know that 98% of the time, you know, if someone says to you like, Hey, you good? You doing all right? Your answer is going to be yes. Like, no matter what, if you're having a terrible day, if you're, you know, I don't know, your, your dog just got hit by a car, like you're still gonna be like, yep, yep, I'm good.

Right? And I think that that script we can help disrupt by simply asking the [00:30:00] next question. It seems like you're struggling a little bit. You seem a little down, like you haven't been showing up a lot lately. Are, are you sure everything's good for, for some reason, asking that second question opens the pathway to a whole lot more authenticity, real conversation, opportunities for people to engage in, in help seeking and all that other kind of stuff.

The other, the other notion that I use, um, you, you're a gym guy, so you, you'll get this one too, right? It is completely 100% acceptable in the gym for somebody to ask for a spot, especially when you're lifting a weight that that is slightly on, on the scary side, like, oh, this is, this is kind of getting to a point where this might introduce some danger.

It is perfectly acceptable for me to look over and be like, Hey, Matt, can you spot me on this? Yeah, no problem. But we don't apply that same notion. To anything outside of that physical [00:31:00] activity, right? Like, Hey, can you spot me on this, um, this exam that I'm really nervous about? I'm really stressed about, Hey, I'm trying to land this internship.

Hey, can, you know, can, can you just gimme a little, little pep talk about this interview though? I'm about to go to, like, I wonder how much more? And I think that that's why I, I resonate so much with your permission to feel like, I wonder how much more we can do. Accomplish if we simply give ourselves permission to answer that second question, to, to say the thing that's on our mind and not just bottle it up and keep it in.

Matt Kovatchis: Yeah. There's, there's, there's so much good in there. There's a couple things that came to mind. One is like, I think another thing that we can do that I often do is like, you know, you get the basic, Hey, how are you? Oh, I'm good. How are you? Right. You know, it's, it's, it's almost a gesture rather than an actual.

Conversation, and I always will say like, Hey, I'm doing all right, or, or, I'm doing great. You know, the weather's beautiful. Like I [00:32:00] will always give a real answer. Uh, it's almost like a, a, a pattern interruption, if you will. That kind of, and then I'll always flip it back onto them. So they might say, I'm good, how are you?

And then I'll say. Hey, I'm doing all right. Like, I had a little bit of a challenging conversation earlier in the day, so I'm kind of, I'm kind of struggling through the day, but I'm, but I'm good overall. I feel grateful. How are you? And then I'll ask it again. And the second time that I ask it, I'll actually get a real answer, because you've opened the door for a little bit of vulnerability for just being real, for being human.

Um, the other thing that I, that, that kind of came to mind is when it comes to just seeking help is. I always tell my audiences like, who here? Like who? Who here likes helping other people? And inevitably every hand goes up, 

Casey J. Cornelius: right? 

Matt Kovatchis: Right. E, everybody. Why? Because it makes us feel good. We don't have to overcomplicate it.

It's fulfilling. And yet there's so many of us in this room that [00:33:00] will offer help, but we'll never seek it ourselves. Mm-hmm. And then you'll tell me, well, I'm just selfless, Matt. I'm a giver. And I don't think there's bad intention behind that, truly. I'm not judging, but I just invite people to think about it from a different perspective, meaning I actually think it's, again, not bad intent, but a little bit selfish because we just identified that helping other people is a win-win scenario.

The person getting help gets to support they need, the person helping them feels good and fulfilled about themselves. So every time that we refuse to seek help and we only wanna give it to other people, we are robbing, you know, our fraternity brothers, sorority sisters, friends, family of the opportunity to feel good and fulfilled about themselves and on top of it get the help and support that we occasionally need because we're human.

So, I love that. Second question, uh, that, that idea if you will, because I think what it does similar to kind of what I described is opens the door. [00:34:00] To vulnerability, because we all wanna be able to connect with each other. But connection, real connection requires vulnerability and someone's gotta lead with it.

And so why, like, let let that be. Who's 

Casey J. Cornelius: gonna be the one? Yeah. Who's gonna be the one's? Be the one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Matt, I, I, I love it. Um, folks, again, please make sure that you check out Matt's signature programs, including permission to Feel, uh, for college, for life.com/matt. Matt, we, we didn't even get the opportunity to get to, to your other major work, you know, the learning to enjoy your own company.

I, I think we could do a whole podcast just on, thats like enjoying your own company, uh, the, the, the self-love journal and all that other kind of stuff. But, um, you know, for the sake of. This podcast and the, the length of this episode, you think we can get you outta here on some, uh, some rapid fire questions to let people get to know you a little bit better as well?

Matt Kovatchis: Absolutely. Let's do it. 

Casey J. Cornelius: All right, so now in full transparency, some people prepare, some people wanna know these questions beforehand. I ask [00:35:00] Matt before we hit record, Matt, do you wanna know these questions? And he said, no. So he's hearing 'em for the first time. Here we go. Ready? So Matt, let's imagine that you get an entire day to binge watch anything.

Binge watch anything you want an entire day. What do you choose? 

Matt Kovatchis: Oh my gosh. And it's rapid fire. Uh, I'm gonna just go mind. You can, you can take your 

Casey J. Cornelius: time. You can take your time. Go ahead. 

Matt Kovatchis: I'm gonna go, you know, I'm not a big TV watcher actually, so I'm gonna go what intuitively came to mind, which is kind of weird.

I'm kind of surprised that this is what came to mind, but it did. So Impractical Jokers. Okay. Tell us why. It's just, I, you know, my sense of humor is, is like, I, I really appreciate like real life humor, meaning just like interactions, everyday interactions rather than scripted humor. Yeah. And so, I mean, those guys are just so incredibly, uh, funny together, they're best friends and yet they're so good at just [00:36:00] goofing with each other.

And so I just. Something about them and, and the way they interact with people. It just, it really does have me laughing, uh, in a way that, that I just don't laugh at that often. So that, that, I think that's what I would go with. I think I could, I could binge a whole day of, uh, of Impractical Jokers, 

Casey J. Cornelius: you know, I just had to look it up.

As you mentioned it, there are 12 seasons, 12 seasons of impractical. Oh, Casey, you've never seen 

Matt Kovatchis: it. You've got, you've got, uh. Some homework to do. It is, uh, especially those earlier seasons before people, 'cause you know, season 12, everybody knows them 'cause they got so big. Right. But it was hard for them to kind of do these, these bits, but those first few seasons where no one knows who they are, I mean, man, it is, it is funny.

It, it is well worth a watch. 

Casey J. Cornelius: All right. I'm, I'm, I'm gonna put it on the list. Alright, here we go. Matt, what is the most used app on your phone? 

Matt Kovatchis: Wow, that's a great question. I would say, well, the true answer is YouTube because I use it for my brown noise at night. So that's the true answer because I got like, [00:37:00] alright, but not notwithstanding that, I would say probably, probably Instagram combination of both.

Consumption, but also creators. So, you know, I, I like, I prefer to create rather than consume and I do a lot of creating on both LinkedIn and Instagram. So I frequently have those apps open trying to think of ideas and things of that nature. Gotcha, 

Casey J. Cornelius: gotcha. It's, it's interesting that you mentioned the, the, the brown noise, the, the YouTube.

Sometimes I look at the stats on my phone, it will be like. You were on social media for X amount of time and it's like, well that's also because I throw out a podcast to fall asleep to at night. It just keeps playing in the background. Exactly. Does exactly count. Right. Alright, so Instagram's probably your go-to.

I imagine that a lot of people would agree with you on that one. Uh, Matt, let's imagine for a second that you can have dinner with anyone you'd like. Who would you most want to have dinner 

Matt Kovatchis: with? It is so funny you ask that, that's one of the questions we ask at the end of my podcast. Every. And I've, I've, I've asked that [00:38:00] question a hundred.

I stole it. I stole it. I've asked that question a hundred times, but I've never answered it. I would say, wow, that is, you know, there's, there's two people that come to mind. Mark Cuban and Kevin Hart 

Casey J. Cornelius: both 

Matt Kovatchis: together, like at the 

Casey J. Cornelius: same time, or, 

Matt Kovatchis: you know, honestly, together, let's, let's do a dinner of three. Yeah. I, I, you know, those two guys really inspire me.

Um, you know, both self-made. Entrepreneurs didn't come from much, um, you know, I think approach business the right way, uh, and, and really life and just, they're filled with knowledge. They're both funny. So I think it, we'd be filled with laughs and also wisdom. Um, there's a couple others that are now coming to mind as I'm, as I'm speaking, but, but we'll go, we'll go with those two.

Casey J. Cornelius: Sub-question though. The, the three of you having dinner, who's picking up the bill? 

Matt Kovatchis: That that's going to mark, I think Mark, mark, mark. I think Mark's the only, I mean, Kevin, Kevin's getting there to billionaire status, but Mark Mark's definitely got a lot more money than both of us. [00:39:00] 

Casey J. Cornelius: I love it. Listen, if anybody wants to tag Mark Cuban, Kevin Hart in this podcast episode, share, please make sure that you do all right, Matt.

It's the end of the day. Uh, you, you're, you're ready to, to, uh, you know, kind of set down the battery for the day, let it recharge. What is your process? What do you do to wind down? Do you have any type of rituals or things that you do habitually each and every day? 

Matt Kovatchis: That is a really great question because it's something I actually take very seriously.

You know, my, my sleep is my biggest non-negotiable. I, you know, I go to bed basically at the same time every day. Wake up at the same time, never wake up to an alarm. So I, I'm really glad you asked that question because it's something I actually am very intentional about. Yeah. I always, I always wind down.

I, I shut the laptop at 5, 5 30. No later, unless there's something you know, pressing. Mm-hmm. But for the most part, five 30 every single day it's off. And I will go take my dog for a walk. So we'll wind down with a little walk outside in [00:40:00] nature and then I will take a big fat seat on the couch, cuddle with my dog, either do some form of reading.

Sometimes I actually really enjoy listening to podcasts. Kind of similar to you. Yeah. So I have that and I actually like watching them. Like for me, I don't know, I don't know what it is, but just like watching two people connect really is relaxing to me. Um, I'll do some sort of meditation, prayer, something along the lines to really help me decompress, and then I'll go lay in bed.

I give myself five to 10 minutes of scrolling for my own little pleasure. Then the phone goes away and. And sleep. I go. But it's, I, I'm really, I'm really glad you asked because it's, it's something that I really preach. I think, you know, our sleep is extremely precious and, uh, I, I, uh, I really do prioritize kinda my nighttime routine 

Casey J. Cornelius: for, for body, mind, spirit, all, all that other kind stuff.

All, all the 

Matt Kovatchis: things. You know, I think the key, I think the key thing in there is dog. My, my dog Patty is, um, [00:41:00] incredibly healing and regulating, especially later in the day. Just, um, you know, getting to lay with her is, is, uh. It's, it's, I don't take it for granted. It, it really is a gift. 

Casey J. Cornelius: Listen, there is one more question, but, but we didn't talk about Patty and I feel a little guilty.

Please don't, please don't let her know. Right. Like, okay. Clear. Clear the deck. Talk about Patty for just a second. 

Matt Kovatchis: I mean, you know, man, I got, it was impulse. She was a foster fail. I'd never really even fostered. I was seeing someone in 2022 who fostered dogs, and so I was helping out and I was like, oh my God, this dog is great.

I had no intention of ever getting a dog. That was basically almost my rock bottom. Like I was really struggling at that point, and then me and her stopped seeing each other and I was really spiraling and I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna foster, I'm gonna adopt this dog. I didn't know what I was getting myself into.

I had the puppy blues, even though she wasn't a puppy. I mean she was two. Um, and I was just like, what did I do? What did I get myself into? Such a life change. It turned out to be the best decision of my life. I mean, she's been [00:42:00] with me now for over three years. Like I said, I got her basically at my rock bottom.

She's been with me through it all. And, um, you know, I've definitely gone through some lonely chapters, you know, whether it be a solopreneur, um, you know, shedding old, old friendships and, you know, as I've kind of, you know, grown into myself authentically. And so to have her along the way throughout it all is, I mean, you know, they say a dog's a man's best friend.

Yeah. But truly, you know, she, she really is. So, she is, she is the light of my life. 

Casey J. Cornelius: I love it. Shout out to Patty and, um, folks, I, I'm, I'm sure that you, uh, you're going to see some, some Patty posts, uh, after this next question. Uh, Matt, where can listeners best connect with you? Is there any platform or so forth that, that you prefer above others?

Matt Kovatchis: Yeah, I would say you can go check me out on my website, matt aches.com. Also for college, for life.com/matt. It's got information on my programs, um, learning outcomes, all the things and social media wise. Like I said, [00:43:00] Instagram and LinkedIn is where I post most of my content. So if you wanna get to learn more about.

You know, me both from an educational perspective and some of the things that I, you know, educate on, but also just me more personally. I like to share kind of who I am, both the ups and downs. Um, great place to get to know me better. Both LinkedIn and Instagram. I post lots of content, also Facebook a little bit.

Um, but any of those places would love to, uh, would love to connect. 

Casey J. Cornelius: I will say this, Matt is a fantastic follow, by the way. I'm not just saying that 'cause he is part of our team, but he is, uh, really transparent in his social media in a way that, that I. Um, prefer I'm, I'm not someone who. Kinda like you've mentioned before, I don't, I don't try to consume a ton of social media, uh, but I always love seeing Matt's post because I, I often then get a sense of what's on his mind, what he's thinking about.

It is not, uh, it is not real, what I would call like curated and brandy and all that other kind of stuff. Matt's uh, Matt's putting himself out there, so please make sure you, you reach out on this platform. Give him a follow. He's a good follow and, and he'll probably follow you back [00:44:00] too. Uh, folks, speaking of, uh, following and platforms and all the other kind of stuff.

We thank you so much for listening to this podcast. The only thing that we ask, uh, well, it's a little two-parter, right? The first one is, please make sure that you do the thing that you're supposed to do with podcasts. Please make sure that you like and share, and subscribe and, and get this episode into the ears of people who could benefit from hearing it.

Learn Matt's story. Learn more about his work. Uh. But also please let us know the content that you want to hear more about, right? So if you're like, oh, we didn't even get to, to Matt's talk about, uh, self-compassion and, and self-love and so forth. We can schedule more of these podcast episodes to give you exactly the content that you find most beneficial.

So again, please make sure that you like, share, subscribe, share this particular episode or others with folks who need to hear it, and then also talk back to us. Let us know what you want to hear, and our job is to make the content that you desire. So with that, until next time, [00:45:00] Matt, it's been a pleasure. To everyone listening, thank you so much and we'll talk to you soon.

Matt Kovatchis: Thanks, Casey. I appreciate it.