ForCollegeForLife Podcast
ForCollegeForLife Podcast
Casey J. Cornelius: Speaker, Consultant, and Founder of ForCollegeForLife
The highly anticipated introduction episode of the ForCollegeForLife founder is here!
Casey J. Cornelius is the founder and president of ForCollegeForLife and one of the nation’s leading voices on personal development and healthy masculinity. A first-generation college graduate with a bachelor's degree and two master's degrees, Casey has spent more than a decade traveling the country to help campuses and organizations aim toward the extraordinary. He is known for his ability to connect quickly and meaningfully with audiences, his commitment to service, and his deep belief in the power of relationships. His proudest roles are father, husband, son, and uncle, and he brings that spirit of care into every room he enters.
Casey's Programs: https://forcollegeforlife.com/casey
Casey's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caseycornelius/
Casey's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/caseyjfcfl/
Hey everyone, welcome to the latest episode of the ForCollegeForLife podcast. My name is not Casey Cornelius, so no need to check your phone or your laptop or however you're listening to this. You are listening to the right podcast. My name is Chris Molina, and today I get the privilege of hosting today's podcast episode. And I get to highlight one of our speakers slash consultants. And this person's name is Casey J. Cornelius. And he is undoubtedly a person that helps 4 College for Life maintain the title of being America's leading college speaking agency. So let's just jump in and introduce the man that you've been hearing at the beginning of all of these episodes. I am very happy to introduce the founder and the president of 4 College for Life, Casey J. Cornelius. Casey has been a leading national voice on the topics of personal development and healthy masculinity for more than a decade. He travels the country to work with campuses and organizations who aim towards the extraordinary. When you spend more than five minutes with him, you will realize something very important: that Casey is not interested in being average or anything that is average. He was born and raised in Cincinnati, Ohio, and Casey is a first-generation college graduate who holds a bachelor's and two master's degrees, despite being advised once that college isn't for everybody. Some fast facts about Casey. He's a proud fraternity man and an inductee of his college or his chapters hall of fame. He's a philanthropist and creator of the Cornelius Scholarship for First Generation Students. He was named a distinguished alumnus by the University of Toledo in 2023. He has been recognized with national and international awards for educational content development and delivery. And people call him America's Uncle, and he is just starting to embrace it. Casey resides with his family in Bay City, Michigan, despite having a complicated relationship with the cold, the ice, and the snow. In other words, you know that he really, really, really loves his family. His proudest titles are father, husband, and son. Please join me in welcoming Casey Cornelius. Casey, how are you?
Casey J. Cornelius:This is so strange, folks. I gotta, I gotta confess. Chris and I are having a little fun before we press record about how I would feel being on the other side of the microphone. Chris, I'm doing great. Uh I'm I'm I'm trusting you. I'm handing over the keys, uh, all the metaphors. I'm I'm actually really excited to do this. I've I've been putting this off for years. Is that is that fair to say? Years. Um you have been nudging me uh lovingly as as a friend and brother would that like, hey, you need to do your own episode as well. And I, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll get it get around to it. Well, here we are. The the mic is yours, my friend.
Chris Molina:And you know, I I want to start off with with kind of just setting the table uh regarding what you talked about, and that is that um people that listen to this podcast, uh, they get to hear your voice a lot. And I think whenever you get to hear somebody's voice a lot, you you get to think that you know them and you get familiar with their voice, but I don't know that there are many people that maybe haven't hired you to come on their campus or haven't been to a talk of yours. And and I don't think there are many people that know exactly what's important to you. So maybe as we're wrapping up this calendar year, can you talk about a few things that are just most important to you? And then I'm gonna jump into some of these topics that I'm really excited about.
Casey J. Cornelius:Yeah, for sure. And you know, it's it's interesting because um hosting this podcast, my goal is to be heard the the least, right? Like I I want I want our folks to shine and and ask them the type of questions um that that allows that to happen. And one of the things that that's always so fun about it is I might come in with with a notion of what we're going to talk about, but inevitably something is said or a topic comes up, and I'm I'm always surprised by it. So um I I I try to put myself in the position of someone who uh doesn't know everything about our our teammates. Um because I'm because I'm still learning too. So I mean, I think I think that that intro that you read is in some ways a very f like accurate synopsis of who I am. I I think my proudest titles are husband and father and son. And and by the way, I I always you know joke that this notion of being America's uncle, like I but I'm I'm real human beings uncle too. Like it's it's not just uh you know, and and I I love that. I I love the opportunity to uh to get to spoil and um and and hopefully mentor and and nurture uh my my nephews and nieces as well. And yeah, I mean th those are the things that are really important to me. I along along the way of the journey, I've had the opportunity to also put my shoulder behind some things that are that are also uh personally and professionally important and where those things intersect. Uh, I find a lot of a lot of fuel and a lot of enthusiasm. And um, you know, you mentioned the the scholarship for first generation students. That's kind of at the I think the the intersection of those things for me as well. Um I I love speaking, I I love the dynamics of building our team and and trying to foster us to be really that uh that leading uh college speaking agency that we've grown into. So those are the things that that really strike passion for me.
Chris Molina:And maybe I can put a bow on that before I I open the first topic. Uh because I hear the words father, husband, son, uncle, and I know you personally. Um and recently I've been thinking about the way that people do community, right? Would you maybe you would you would say an important thing to you is your community and like ensuring that you play uh an important part in in not just those people that you care about, but also those topics that you care about?
Casey J. Cornelius:Yeah, you know, I I have said before, um probably to fewer people than than I should, um might be the first time I'm saying this to you. I I I think over the years I've understood more clearly what my mission in this in this world on this uh on this planet is, you know, and I I I think my mission is to be of service to people I love. Um but now the the second part of that statement that I am always quick to to say is that I should also not be stingy with with love. It it it doesn't have to necessarily be blood relatives or something like that, but you know, if if you're my friend and I love you, I should be of service to you in whatever capacity that looks like. If you're if you're my neighbor, if you're um you know, if you're in my community, if if you're a stranger, I shouldn't be stingy with demonstrating love and then being of service to those I love too, right? So when when those factors align for me, don't get me wrong, 100% human, don't always get it right. But when those factors align for me, I feel like I'm I'm in a really good space, right? So being of service, demonstrating love, uh trying to do so in the most authentic way possible.
Chris Molina:You know, you have this program, and I remember you telling me about it whenever you're uh before you launched it, whenever you were like, you know, I kind of read this book and I'm getting this feeling based off of just everything that's going on. And it's called The Extraordinary Art of Caring.
Casey J. Cornelius:Don't read the subtitle though, because you know there was a pause there
Chris Molina:Because I was like, he's gonna jump in. If he wants me to read the subtitle, you can go to ForCollegeForLife.com and read it for yourself. Um Casey, why do more people need to care? I hear it in your voice. I hear you talking about caring for other people, and and I think you and I get along a lot because I I think I do the exact same, and there are often times that I get people asking me, like, why are you so kind? Why do you care so much about me? Like, I barely know you. I I you spoke at my school, and and I I'm still able to come to you for advice, and it seems like there's there's a lack of caring, and maybe from your perspective, you can explain not just why this program is so important for campuses and organizations, but why does the world need more of it? Hmm.
Casey J. Cornelius:So there's there's so much to unpack, and the reason that I um launched that that concept into the world was really we were we were coming out of a season that it that it felt like things had been so disrupted. And the symptoms of a lack of care, what I sometimes call enthusiasm fatigue, were were just so evident. And you know, through some reflection and storytelling, uh there was a pivotal moment in in my young life in which um you know my best friend looked at me in in a in a really I was in a really down place. And I won't ruin it completely. And he looked at me and he said, Um, you know what your problem is? And uh, you know, I I think I think all of us hope that in the the moment in which someone can give us a key, wisdom, advice, the thing that's going to change the trajectory, um, that was where I was. And and I was like, what? You know, what what's what's my problem? And he looks at me and he's like, your problem is you care too much. And then he walked away. And um, you know, in retrospect, what happened next over the next weeks, months, probably almost a year of my life, was that I took on that mindset that, like, oh, it's better if you don't care, it's better if you don't put yourself out there. Like, I'm I'm gonna do me, I'm I'm gonna focus on me and be be selfish and all that other kind of stuff. And the truth was, um I was really good at it. And and I was also miserable. And I think if not for good, healthy, positive relationships, and I don't just use that term like in the romantic sense, but like but but also romantic, but like if not for good, healthy, positive relationships, I don't know where I would be today, but I I know I wouldn't be here. Um so what I have tried to do through the extraordinary art is bring people back to the importance of relationships. And whether that relationship is again romantic, you're dating someone, whether that relationship is organizational, um, you know, I'm I'm a proud fraternity man. So so your brother, your sorority sister, whether it's a teammate, whether it's a friend, whether it's a roommate, whether it's a a a family member, whether it's you know your neighbor, w whoever it is, attending to those relationships makes all the difference in the world. Because here's here's ultimately at the end of the day, the greatest nutshell that I can give you we need each other. We need each other. And when we surrender to that notion that we're better together, then we can begin investing in one another in ways in which everybody deserves. So for me, care is also an acronym, and it stands for concern, awareness, respect, and empathy. When we demonstrate true concern, awareness, respect, and empathy for others, when we care for people outside of ourselves, by the way, we could spend a whole hour talking about what self-care looks like too. But when we do those things, the world gets better. And when we don't do those things, it gets worse. And we get a choice. We get a choice. Yeah.
Chris Molina:Yeah. I love that. And and I have to, uh you know, I'm always gonna say the thing, Casey. Like a lot of times whenever I hear uh speakers create acronyms, I can I can like I'm not the biggest fan of it. It seems kind of like really, really forced, but I love that acronym um and the way that you're able to use it. Um I recently had somebody that I was working out with uh um ask me, like, are you really that positive? Or do you is it just like a facade you put on because of your profession? And I got to dive into like one of the reasons why I think I am this way, because it's not just a facade, and um I love philosophy and um Voltaire's Candid at the end of it. Uh he talks about um everybody, what ought we to do? We all ought to tend to our own garden, like tend to our own community, the people that we care about, and especially in today's day and age where we have easy access to every single problem in the world, in the country, um, it's it's very easy to lose sight of that. And so I I do want to ask you one more question on this topic. Sure. Um, for somebody that's listening, um, and and and they maybe have identified and connected with what you've said, and they're like, you know, I I want to care more. Not everybody around me cares, though. Where do I start? What's what's what's one thing that I can do to start caring more? What would you tell them?
Casey J. Cornelius:You know, that this is one of the big takeaways of the program, but one of the things that I say, and I'm I'm reminded of this in in my own journey as well. Um, you know, sorry, I'm getting a little choked up even thinking about the the context of what I'm about to say, but um I believe that true caring begins where necessity ends. Um meaning we know if we're sitting next to someone on a on a park bench or or in or in line at the store, we know the appropriate protocol for being kind or caring or whatever it is. Cool. Let's consider that baseline. But the difference is what do you do beyond necessity? Um sometimes it is as basic as asking the next question. Um I can I can I share a quick story as he's okay. I mean, it's your podcast. You know what? I'll tell Kristin to cut it out if I don't like it, you know. Shout out to Kristin, our Creative Director, who always makes these sound uh like a gazillion bucks. Thank you, Kristin. Um Chris recently I was uh at the University of Dayton and through a series of um events, I I I was running a little a little behind schedule. Um I I was going to walk over to the venue. Um it's a little less than a mile. I I tried to do that, I tried to get some air beforehand, uh, even on those cold winter days. I tried to get a little air. Um but I was running a little behind, and I ended up like, no, I wouldn't take an Uber, I don't want to be late. Hop into Uber, and like nine minutes until soundcheck, and and pull back the curtain a little bit for uh for those in the the speaking world. I I believe wholeheartedly in the importance of sound check, getting to the venue early, all that other kind of stuff. So I'm I'm a little behind and a little stress related to it. And I hop into the Uber and uh you know the the driver, his name's Chad. Uh he says, Hey, how's it going? I was like, Good man, how are you? He's like, I'm alright. And just kind of paused, you know, and he's like, So we're you're going to the university, what do you do? And I I always like I'm a little cautious, especially in short rides. I'm like, oh, I'm I'm a speaker, because inevitably, Chris, okay, here you go. Softball. What's the next thing someone's gonna say? Oh, what do you speak about? What do you speak about? And I wish I could tell you within 60 seconds what all I speak about. So you one of the things that I've I've started just saying is, you know, I try to help people be better people. And he was like, Oh, okay. So we're heading to the university, and I could I could just sit. Like there's something in the way he he answered the question, or just something told me, hey, ask the next question. And I said, You doing alright? He's like, Yeah. And I just said, um, what's going on? And by the way, I should put this one part into context. This is a six-minute Uber. Like the like from from the hotel to the venue, six minutes. Yeah. And he's like, well, he's like, actually, I'm I'm struggling a little bit today. You know, um, you're my first ride of the day. I I was just planning on staying in, but I I just thought I needed to get out and just be around a little bit. Um really been struggling. Um I was like, like physically, you know, mentally. And he disclosed to me that um he had just gotten out of the ICU uh a few weeks prior as he had attempted to take his life. And um I just you know, I I could have I could have just been like, oh man, that sucks. Oh, that that must be hard. We had gotten to the venue, and I just sat there and I said, I'm really glad you're here. And tears just started. They just started flowing. We're two guys, we all know each other, tears started flowing. And uh I said, what do you what are you struggling with, Chad? And he said, I'm I'm struggling with forgiveness. I said, Oh. He said, like family members and stuff like that? He's like, no, no, he's like, my my family's all forgiving me. I said, then who do you need to forgive you? And Chris, lightning bolt, he goes, I need to forgive myself. And all I said to him was, Chad, I I know, I know we just met, but something in the universe put us in this car together, you were gonna stay home, I wasn't gonna need if I could just offer you this one bit of wisdom, and I think it's it's something that I think we can all we can all absorb a little bit. I just said set it down. If your family has forgiven you, your friends have forgiven you, and the universe decided that you still belong here, it's time to forgive yourself. And then we departed. And it occurred to me, because an hour later I'm saying the words true caring begins where necessity ends. And of course I didn't tell the story at this time. Could have had my headphones in, could have been so wrapped up in myself that I was like, oh, I I can't be late. And by the way, I w I was five minutes late. Um I I could have been lost in what I what I had to do, that that this just became a transactional relationship. Hey, you're the Uber driver, get me to where I need to go. Um, or I could have said, what's going on? Complete stranger. What what's what's happening? And I I just keep thinking to myself, one, I hope Chad's I hope Chad's good, and I hope he's forgiven himself, but I also keep thinking to myself, I think the world puts us in places that we have the opportunity to to demonstrate care. And again, it comes down to whether or not we choose to or not. And I hope more people do.
Chris Molina:Oh man. And like I for any listener that doesn't know you, Casey, they they wouldn't know that uh you don't meet many strangers, especially in Ubers. And so this is not a situation that is like a one-off, like the amount of conversation or the amount of Ubers that you and I have been in, and I've just seen the very quick relationship that uh you created, not as meaningful as that one, I think. Um, but this is it's such an impactful story, and I think um shows that caring doesn't need necessarily to be this grand gesture that takes up so much time and energy. Like it was a six-minute drive at the end of you getting out. I know you were there longer than six minutes. How long would you say that took? Maybe six more minutes. Like less than 15.
Casey J. Cornelius:Less than 15, yeah.
Chris Molina:Yeah, yeah. And like I I think that is an important thing to put into context whenever we're talking about doing something for somebody else or caring or serving other people, people that we love, people that we know. Um, it's it's so important to realize it doesn't need to be an hour-long conversation necessarily, it can be just a meaningful less than 15-minute chat. And I and and I want to tug on one thing, part of the story. You said um whenever you guys were there, it was just two guys talking for like the next six minutes. Yeah. Um talking about men. That is a topic that you have talked about um for decades. And um I know not just based off of the conversations that you and I have had, but also just a quick glance at uh any of your social medias or the website, like it's it's evident this is an incredibly important topic to you. Um there are many topics that you could focus on. This has been one of them, and it continues to be one of them. Why? Hmm Why?
Casey J. Cornelius:Um well I'll you know this this sounds a little strange to sort of beat this drum in this way, but when when I started talking about men and healthy masculinity, the conversation was almost exclusively negative. Um it was almost always framed from a a problem lens. Men are problems, men cause problems. And don't get me wrong, we can look at statistics and have that have that conversation all day. It's not it's not inaccurate. Yep. But it occurred to me that if we want to solve these issues, that we need to invite more men to the conversation and help them understand, help us understand, because listen, again, none of none of us are perfect in this conversation, help us understand how we learn to perform this thing called manhood and masculinity, and what are the alternate choices that we can make to truly live longer, fuller, healthier, happier lives. And at the at the beginning of this journey, when I started putting this out into the world, listen, maybe somebody else used the term healthy masculinity, but I don't ever remember hearing it before. And I tried to present it as an alternative to everything that we were hearing. And some people got it right away, and some people pushed back right away, and some people shouted it down right away, and some and some people. This was probably the the hardest of all of the you know choose your own adventures. The the you know, turn to page 86. The hardest one was when people tried to present it as if we focus on men's well-being, it has to be done at the cost of women's well-being. And that one that one always sort of bothered me that it felt like it was um that I somehow was being adversarial or or opposing um women's worth or success or empowerment or you whatever it might be, because the the narrative was easy to to make, and it was harder for me to explain that no no no. Um, first of all, you know, raising my hand, no one can say raising my hand, raised by feminists, like the you know, here I am. Uh have a mother and wife and daughter and sister-in-laws and all the nieces. Um, by the way, you shouldn't have to care about women's issues, uh, or you shouldn't only care about women's issues because you have women in your life, you should care about them because they're important. But it occurs to me: listen, we need good men in the world because those women that we're talking about have significant others, they have colleagues, they have classmates, they have neighbors, they have friends. Like, if if we want things that are good for women, also men being good is is good for women as well. Like, so so that whole argument really sort of uh uh strained strained my my mind and my heart and my spirit for a long time. But over the years, here's what I've come to realize, and one of the reasons that I think that this message still resonates, and and by the way, things have from my perspective uh gotten better in a lot of ways. There's still a lot of work to do, but got better in a lot of ways. It's because I don't talk down to men. I I don't um I don't I don't beat anybody over the head with you, you need to do this, you need to do this. I instead engage a conversation that I think that we can all take part in, which is how did we learn these rules? What are the problems and outcomes of them? How do we perform this thing, and what are the alternatives? And then, as somebody who hopefully has developed some um rapport with an with an audience or a team over an hour, three hours, three days, whatever it is, then let's end with a challenge. Let's let's end with something that says, okay, when we walk out this door, what are we gonna do differently? What can we do? And I, you know, never 100%, but 95 plus percent of the time, I see that change that takes place. And that's the thing that keeps the the fire burning for me, that keeps bringing me back, that says, this is important work. It's also the outcomes that that can't be seen. It's it's the men who are um still here, it's the relationships that are healthy, it's the the risk behavior that's not taking place, it's also the conversations that happen afterwards, both um, and and you know about this, the um interpersonally when someone comes up afterwards and has a conversation or they send you that DM after, or the one that often gets me um is is the the mom that reaches out, says, Thank you, thank you for talking to my son. And those those those get you because um you know that there are there are ripples to to those that uh we we might not ever know or see, but it's important.
Chris Molina:Yeah, and and uh maybe you're this way. I was just explaining this to somebody. I was like, you know, sometimes I have to like intentionally ensure that my environment and my mind are in the place where I can receive the message, the handwritten note, the the DM from the the mom about their kid, because it's so easy for me to like almost brush it off and like oh I'll just do my job, and but that's incredibly impactful, and that's oh I love that. And maybe you can also help me with a quote that um I I know you said, and it was it was it's it it I've I've carried it with me, the spirit of it, and it's the work that you do with groups of men. I believe you said, and please please correct me, um, that it's either the most important thing that we do or the best thing that we can do for society or the worst thing that we can do for society. Can you can you explain that quote for me?
Casey J. Cornelius:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so I'm a I'm a proud fraternity man, and I I I believe in the power of fraternity. And by the way, we can either think of this as the formalized, you know, traditionally Greek letter organizations, fraternity, or simply a group of men who are who are um bound to one another through uh shared values, um accountability, so forth. I believe that when we do fraternity correctly, we solve a lot of society's problems. Like a lot of them. And when we do fraternity incorrectly, we can cause and perpetuate a lot of those problems. So it's the fork in the road. What's the choice going to be? And by the way, speaking of quotes, uh you will not hear me speak, folks, without hearing this quote come out of my mouth because it it is a mantra for me, and that is choices reflect priorities. Uh, because what we say matters to us means far less than than our actions, our verbs. And I think we all know this through uh you know our our lived experiences. People can say a lot of things, but what do they do? And I think when we do fraternity correctly, again, either formal or informal groups of men bound together in some common value, when we do that correctly, we can all get better. And it's things like hey, if you see your your brother about to fall in a hole, you should stop him from falling. Hey, watch out. And then if they fall in that hole, what should well we should lift them out? And then what should we do? Hey, by the way, step three, step four, what should we do? Fill the hole.
Chris Molina:Yeah.
Casey J. Cornelius:Right? So let's think about right, let's think about fraternity done correctly, like the case for fraternity. Step one, if I fall in a hole, man, I sure would like it if someone helped me out. Step two, if you see me about to walk in a hole, could could you please tap me on the shoulder? In step three, together, if we see that there's a hole there and we know other people are going to fall in it, the way we make things better is we work together to fill it. That's if we do fraternity correctly, we solve a lot of society's problems. One, two, three.
Chris Molina:I love that. Last thing before I ask this next question, because I'm I'm really interested in it, but on the the topic of men. Um actually, and maybe I can ask you a question. Do you remember the first time that you spoke on this topic? Like what year was it? Do you remember?
Casey J. Cornelius:Would have been well, so so formally it probably would have been 2013-2014. Uh, but I feel like the evolution and root of it goes back to like undergraduate fraternity days. Like, how can we be better for one another? But I but I think that the the root of programmatically this topic of healthy masculinity probably would have been 2013-2014.
Chris Molina:So over a decade in either of those scenarios, and you and I can agree that there has been a lot that has happened in the world, in our country, since those times. There's been a lot of change.
Casey J. Cornelius:Yeah.
Chris Molina:And um acknowledging that, also acknowledging that there are some constants within uh just life that sometimes things don't change. Um, I want to know what, from your perspective, what is something that has not changed that we need to continue to address on campuses in America in terms of young men, and then what has changed that wasn't a problem back a decade or more ago, that oh, this is a new thing. We also need to address that.
Casey J. Cornelius:I think that they intersect, Chris. Um I think that the constant, and by the way, this has been the constant throughout human existence, is that young people are drawn to models that they want to emulate. That they see as being the ideal. You know, um, oftentimes I'll frame it as like who was the coolest man in the world when when you were six years old? Sure. And and whether that's a family member or celebrity or athlete or superhero or whatever it is, that kind of creates a model by which you want to live up to. So there's there's the constant through line. And I think that the more that we can introduce positive models today, like this is gonna sound a little strange to say, but one of the reasons that I also think, and I've I've gotten this feedback so it doesn't, it's not completely inauthentic to say, is one of the reasons that I I maybe my my voice resonates on this topic is um I I I'm a guy. Like I'm like like I'm a dude, right? Like, um, but I but I'm different than people expect me to be. Sure. I don't know if that makes sense. Like, so yeah, I got the shaved head, I got the beard some seasons of the year. Like and I'm I'm at the gym, and like, you know, maybe I'm uh they think I'm gonna be like the gym bro or you know, the the the whatever caricature of of of guy that we're talking about here. And instead, I'm those things plus I'm the person that's telling you help seeking behavior is a good thing. That you know, seeking help is not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of desiring greater strength. That when I'm about to do a lift in the gym that feels a little like scary, the best thing that I can do is ask for a spot. And by the way, that same thing applies to a hundred other avenues of life as well. When we're about to do this thing that's a little scary, it's okay to seek help because it's a desire for greater strength. So the through line is we always want to model something that we feel like is is uh aspirational. Here's what has changed, I think, most significantly in decade plus of doing this. Um all people, but especially young people, are being bombarded with examples. Um man, you know, because of the work that I do, my my algorithm, I get fed a lot of a lot of examples. And they're not all good. They're not all Mr. Rogers. They're they're they're not I I don't know why why I picked Mr. Rogers algorithm. Like they're not they're not all delivering that message. Many of them are delivering messages that are in in fact scary in the alternative, and and sometimes like I don't want to shout out anybody's name because I I don't want to uh do it the disservice of it, but but guys will be like, hey, what do you think of this guy? Like this quote unquote influencer, by the way. Man, if if there's a term that could ever like be retired, I sure would hope that it would be like, what do you think of this influencer? And I think sometimes they want me to be like, oh yeah, this guy's greater, oh he's got a great point. And I'm like, actually, he's a he's a problem, and here's why. Like I try, I I try my best to disrupt that sort of model of like, hey, this guy's really popular, so like what do you think of him? Um because I often like I often go back to this experience of being in a room, and you know, when when I have a little longer period of time to work with men, one of the topics that we get to is the the topic of fear. And I remember um college football team, I won't name them because I don't want to, you know, I don't want to do that. I I get to a place in in the the the workshop where I'm like, what's your biggest fear? And I'm in a room of like, you know, super athletes, you know, 19 to 22-year-old, just like the the best of the best, right? Yep, yep. And I look at him like, what's your biggest fear? And of course nobody says anything. I I I knew this would happen. I planned it. So I find the biggest guy and the biggest guy in the room, right? Like I find the guy who looks like a like a pop machine with with arms, right? And I'm like, I'm like, hey man, what's what's your biggest fear? And I'll never forget this this guy. He he looked at me and he's like, I'm not afraid of anything. And I was like, I get it. Like he's it's not like he's walking down the street at night, like, oh my god, what's you know, what's gonna happen to me? And you know, I I pause for a second, I look at him like, Really, man, you're not afraid of anything, and then like the Joker mode comes in. He's like, Yeah, I'm actually I'm afraid of spiders. I'm like, I'm like, yeah, spider, like really, bro, like spiders, you know. And uh, and I I kind of turn back to the room, you know. I'm I'm figuring that that that thread has been pulled. He's like, actually, and I'm so glad I heard him. I turn around. He goes, I'm definitely afraid of failure. I look back to the rest of the room, to these guys who you know, five minutes ago said that they weren't afraid of anything, didn't say a word. I'm like, how about you guys? Anybody else afraid of failure? Almost every hand goes up. What's the lesson? One, we're taught to not talk about things. Two, almost always it takes one person. Yes, one person who's perceived to be strong, successful, a leader, the biggest guy in the room, not afraid of anything, says I'm afraid of failure. It makes it okay for everybody else. So how do we reduce this? Well, in our small groups, in our friendships, in our Communities in our residence halls and our athletic teams, whatever they might be, be the man who's willing to raise their hand and say, actually, I'm afraid of this, or actually, I need help with this, or actually this, actually, because that one man can make all the difference for everybody else.
Chris Molina:Yeah, you could be the just one, just one person needed to say it, and now you're either okay acknowledging that as a young man or or whoever, or you realize that there are other people that are going through that exact same thing, and it makes your world a little bit better.
Casey J. Cornelius:It's not by accident that the title well, there's a lot of reasons, but it's not by accident that the title is Be the Man. Be the man in movement. There's a lot that goes into it for sure.
Chris Molina:Um you also consult, right, Casey? I do. Yeah, and and I always thought that consultants in any industry are very inter like it's an interesting profession because um as I've spoken in the college space for a decent amount of time, like I've come to realize there are very capable and intelligent people that work at these uh campuses. Um but sometimes it hits the fan and you need to call in somebody to um to come do what you do. Can you tell us more about the work that you do as a consultant for these organizations for these campuses that uh maybe we might not see because a lot of times I think it's really easy to um to amplify and to show on social media and on Instagram, hey, I'm at the speaking engagement and I'm the keynote speaker, and it's not really easy to say, hey, this university is in really deep trouble, and they hired me to come work for them. But uh, without naming names, can you just tell us a little bit about the consulting work that you do?
Casey J. Cornelius:You know, it's the point that you make is actually a fantastic one, which is 99% of the work of well, quote unquote, the work of speaking is done in public. Um by the way, we we we both know, and any speaker who's listening to this knows that the vast majority of work is done in private. The payoff, the reward is done in public. But 99% of the work of consulting is done in private. Rarely do we ever get a chance to talk about it. Um the best analogy that I use is uh and and and Chris, you know this. I like to think of analogies because it makes you know complexity in my in my simple brain work a little bit easier. So um you grew up in Gary, Indiana, right? Uh East Chicago, right next to the East Chicago, excuse me. So um, so in East Chicago, Indiana, you probably even you know now as an adult, you probably know how to get basically from point A to point B. And where not to go, yeah. And that's that's a whole other conversation, right? And my guess is if someone's like, hey, I'm looking for this, you'd be like, yep, you go, you go down three blocks, you see a McDonald's, you hit the left, you're good, right? 100%. Right. So because you know, oh, and by the way, where that McDonald's was, it used to be this, and before that it was a park, and like you know all the history, right? Yep. So one of the things that I always have found really interesting is that when cities and towns are redoing their signs, like you know, three miles to this and turn left for this, they actually bring in experts, um, you know, engineers and sign folks and stuff like that, who aren't from there. Because the people who aren't from there don't know that it used to be a Wendy's, and they don't know that that park used to be there. They they don't know they don't know what they don't know, but they know how to help people get from where they are to where they want to be. Mm-hmm. And I think sometimes the best consultants are the people who come in to help solve a problem and humbly say, I can never be an expert at your organization or your institution or your company, but I can help you get from where you are to where you want to be. Now, the the depth of the stickiness from here to there is sometimes uh multiples of complexity, right? Sometimes it's uh a a simple thing. Um I I've had I've had groups bring me in to simply facilitate a conversation. Hey, we're doing a day-long retreat. Can you help us talk to one another? Abs absolutely. I've had people say, look, we're in crisis mode. Can you help us navigate this? I I've had people say, you know, we're we're operating at um it's not a visual podcast, so we're operating at here, let's call it a B. And we really want to be an A. Or we're operating at an A and we really want to be an A plus. We we don't just want to do what we've always done. Can you help us figure out how to break that mold? I think the best consultants are the people who don't know that McDonald's used to be a park, but they can help people get from where they are to where they need to be or where they desire to be. And I love doing that. I love coming in, and um I I joked about multiples of complexity, but the more complex, the more I'm like, Yep, sign me up. And um, one of the things that I I love doing uh this sounds kind of clandestine, is like swooping into a place, spending a day or three days, or you know, whatever it might be, and other than my family and my closest people, they they don't even know I'm there, and we accomplish something incredible and extraordinary together, and then six months later, or a year later, I see the outcome of it. Oh, I love that. Oh, that there's nothing that I and I don't need any of the headlines. I don't need the some of the most satisfying and and fulfilling things are the outcomes that I know the origin story of that nobody else will. Oh, I love that. Oh, I love that.
Chris Molina:Oh, that's awesome. Before we get into the um the the final um rapid fire questions, uh is there anything burning inside that you're like, ah, I really want to talk about this or mention this, and it it's very timely, or maybe this is a a thing that I don't really normally get to talk about, so I want to mention it here.
Casey J. Cornelius:Yeah, that's a that's a great question. I I didn't know that that one was coming. I I'll tell you the the thing is I'm as I'm entering the end of this year and getting to a place of sort of reflection. One of the things that I feel very um satisfied, blessed over the years, is that I've been called, especially in the fraternity and sorority space, I've been called a lot to speak to our newest members. And uh I have a program that's that's off menu, as they say. I I don't yeah, I don't put it out there a lot, but I love delivering it in and it's specifically for our newest members. And I will I hope that this doesn't embarrass anyone who's in our industry, but let's just say sometimes going into that like Saturday morning or Sunday morning or Tuesday night mandatory program for all new members um is is sometimes not the most uh personally sort of fulfilling because it's like well they they're like hostages.
Chris Molina:Are you saying that they don't want to be every person doesn't want to be there? Is that what you're saying?
Casey J. Cornelius:Uh I will not name the school, but I I will tell you the experience that that solidified this for me one time. I was at a uh Was at a university on a Sunday morning at 9 a.m. in the fall, the morning after that school had played their rival school in football the night before. Did they win or lose? They won. Okay. But for the the purposes of this, I'm not exactly sure it mattered because the six six hundred men who were in this room who were required to be there did not want to be there. Sure, sure. It was early, it was Sunday, it was mandatory, and beforehand I'm chatting with one of the guys that's like, oh, you know, so uh you why why'd you choose to come or something like that? He's like, uh, I have to. I was like, oh, you mean it's mandatory? And he's like, yeah, it's more like a hostage situation. And uh, and I'll tell you, one of my greatest satisfactions in this work is taking a room of hostages. Like, give me the thousand hostages and let me see if at the end of an hour if we can win them over. Oh, I love that. I love that. So I've been called a lot uh this year and in the years past to deliver those those new member programs. And for many of them, I'm the first like non member of their organization that they're hearing from in their journey, and I love it. I love it, I love it, I love it, because I can set the tone, I hope, for what they can expect, what we expect of them, what they should expect of us, and what the promise of sorority and fraternity is.
Chris Molina:Isn't that a nice superpower to have? Of like, you know, like we're both parents. Like a parent tells a child something and they're like, oh, whatever, and then they hear it from somebody else that is not their parent, and they're like, oh yeah, no, I should do that. Like, we have that superpower, not not working at the university at the campus, we're an outside person saying uh sometimes the same things that uh um uh the the campus professionals are, but uh obviously with like a lot more storytelling and polishing.
Casey J. Cornelius:I hope, yeah, no, no. Well, I mean, I I I certainly hope. And uh if we can solve that problem for folks, awesome. Um but the other the other analogy, again, I like to think of analogies. Uh I I often will say things like, We're really good at sneaking in vegetables.
Chris Molina:Yes.
Casey J. Cornelius:Right? So what I what I love is by the end of that hour or six months later, or three years later, when they're in leadership positions and so forth, they're like, you know, I didn't actually know that I liked broccoli. But as it turns out, like, broccoli's really good. Um that that that's the magic. That's the magic.
Chris Molina:Yeah, it's good and it's good for you. Um right, some rapid fire questions. Casey, you're normally doing these or you're asking them, you're not really answering them. So are you ready for me to ask you some rapid fire questions?
Casey J. Cornelius:I just wonder if you're gonna change them up on me, right? And I and I've I've kind of purposefully never considered my answer to these. So yeah, let's let's have fun with it.
Chris Molina:Oh no, we definitely uh changed a little. The first one is very easy. Coffee or tea? Oh, coffee, for sure.
Casey J. Cornelius:Yeah, I'm I'm a coffee guy. I've been since I was, you know, it goes back for me um to to being a child and my my grandmother allowing me to steal sips of her coffee. Um, so my my you know first memories of drinking coffee are are with my grandmother, who I, you know, I just idolize and um miss her, miss her tremendously. Coffee.
Chris Molina:Now, is your coffee order uh we going real dark? Does it almost look like milk? Is it in between? What are we doing?
Casey J. Cornelius:Okay, so coffee. So I'm I'm a nerd about this, right? So coffee is black. Okay. Dark, dark. Um, I although I know my limits, I don't get down with like Turkish coffee and stuff like the stuff that you have to continue to stir or it's solidified. Do that every once in a while, but then I don't sleep for three days. Um it's like sh shout out to my Middle Eastern and Mediterranean friends who can who can do the the coffee coffee. Yeah, I'm I'm not quite there. Always start with black, but then the the special treat ones are are typically a little more blonde. Like, okay, um one of those things, again, raising my hand, making it okay for everyone. Listen, if you're sleeping on the sugar cookie latte, you are missing out. Because I gotta tell you, that's about the perfect combination of every single flavor. The sugar cookie latte, it doesn't have to be only from Starbucks. Big B makes a great one, other people do too. But if you see sugar cookie uh latte on the menu, do it. Pro tip almond milk. Almond milk makes all the difference. There you go.
Chris Molina:So coffee. Coffee, yes. Yeah, that's awesome. All right, uh, number two. Uh you have an entire day to binge watch anything. What do you choose?
Casey J. Cornelius:You know, if you asked me this at different uh seasons of my life, it would be it would be a different answer. But for the last two, three years, um the one that I do binge watch uh is the chosen. And for those those who know, you know. Uh for those who you don't, um it is it is telling the story of Jesus and the apostles from uh the most human way I've ever seen. And here's the best way that I can describe it to folks. I have never found a program more worthy of my attention. I have watched it um and and it's now approaching season six of seven. Um I have watched those first five seasons probably eight to ten times.
Chris Molina:Wow. So the chosen. That would be my choice. Yeah. Um, not many people ask this question, um, but instead of binge watching, what would you be listening to on an average day? What's what's going inside of your ears?
Casey J. Cornelius:Man, oh, so there's two answers. Listen, I'm I'm very eclectic when it comes to music, and again, different seasons, different things. So, two things. The one you're probably going to be like, oh, that tracks. The other one is very random and people make fun of me for it. So here's the one that tracks. I listen to a lot of jazz. Okay. My favorite class as an undergrad was an elective class. No disrespect to any of my other professors or classes, but my favorite class was an undergrad elective class called the history of jazz. And I fell in love. So to this day, jazz. But here's the one that people make fun of me for. I really like Yacht Rock. I love that. That is. Um Doobie Brothers, Loggins and Messina, like Oh, yeah, okay, okay, okay. I re- uh folks, go to Spotify, type in Yacht Rock, or whatever your streaming platform is of choice, type in Yacht Rock, and you don't even have to really love the the words or like the story of the song. It's just great music. It's just fun. It makes you feel good. I can play it in the background. Uh Yacht rock.
Chris Molina:Yacht rock. Yeah. For for those of us like me that uh uh are hearing that phrase for the first time, how do you spell that?
Casey J. Cornelius:Y A C H T. Let me make sure I'm saying that correctly. Oh boy, you got me on the spot now. Uh yes, uh Y A C H T Yacht rock. Um and and listen, give it a few hours. You can laugh at first, give it a few hours, come back to it every few days, you will not be disappointed. Make sure you let Uncle Casey know what you think.
Chris Molina:Um I think I know that it's like the the the message app, but if it is, maybe choose a more interesting one. But what is the most used app on your phone?
Casey J. Cornelius:It probably is the message app. It is. Um social media wise. So I'm gonna give you three categories. Social media-wise, and I've been I've been a hard critic on this app for a long time. I find myself opening LinkedIn more. Sure. Um Instagram's cool. Facebook I go to every day to look at my memories and to wish people happy birthday. By the way, if if your birthday is listed on on Facebook, you're getting a message from me every single day. Guaranteed. Um, but I find myself clicking on LinkedIn more. In terms of apps, one that I think people sleep on a little too much is notes. I've got I've got notes to myself, I've got idea notes, I've got uh engagement, like you know, uh details and and everything like that, going back years and years and years. The the great thing about it is is that you can also search it. So like if I'm like, oh, uh I I got a message from fill in the blank college or university. When was I there last? It was this time, where did I stay? Cool, like where did I eat? Like, I'm one of those people who I I love details, so the the more things that allow me to sort of categorize those um the the better it is. And then again, um you just heard me talk about binging. I'm a person of faith. Um I I use the Hallow app a lot. I I try to use it every day um for for some some guided um sometimes guided meditation, sometimes guided uh thoughts. Um, you know, as we sit here in December, it's it's advent season and there's a challenge going on right now. So so every try to do my best. Uh you know, please forgive me, God, if I don't. Um I try to do my best to every day uh tend to my spiritual side too.
Chris Molina:This next one, can you answer really quickly without thinking, and then you can justify it right after?
Casey J. Cornelius:Maybe.
Chris Molina:Ohio or Michigan?
Casey J. Cornelius:Nope. Nope. Nope, we're we're not, we're not, no, no, no, no, no, no. Um I'm from Ohio. I live in Michigan. Um so home is always always going to be Ohio. It's it's where my family's from, it's where my wife's family's from. Um it's it's a special place, but we have chosen to live in Michigan uh for for long enough now. We've we've raised a child who is a Michigander. Um although my my wife always jokes that you know she thought about making a run for the border so that she could, Kendall could be born in Ohio. Uh no, no, I will not, I will not do that.
Chris Molina:No, no, no, no, no, no, no. When we when we stop reporting, I'm gonna ask you like what what did your brain say before you got because I'm you got a really good filter. I know that you can't see it.
Casey J. Cornelius:Yeah, no, no, no. It's it's it's uh it's developed over time, my friend. Yes, I have uh some sometimes I have said things in the past where I I wish I could catch the words as they're coming out of my mouth. And um, no, we're not putting them out to the world. No, nope, nope. By the way, this is probably gonna be the sound bite, right? Like Kristen's probably gonna choose me just going, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Chris Molina:Um if you couldn't train Brazilian jujitsu, what martial art would you train? Hmm.
Casey J. Cornelius:That is a great question. Um I think I mean we're not including wrestling because uh obviously that's it's derivative, derivative. Of grappling. I I think that that Muay Thai is really interesting. If you have ever been in a what's called tie clinch, which is where someone has their hands interlocked uh behind your neck and sort of controlling your head and movement and so forth, if you've ever been in that that that position and not known how to get out of it, it can be one of the most humbling things in the world. So I I think Muay Thai would be would be my choice.
Chris Molina:Yeah, then they have all the throws too if you like try to get out of it too. Like, yeah, it's just yeah.
Casey J. Cornelius:And you think you're going okay, and then you get kicked in the leg, and yeah, it's yeah.
Chris Molina:Um who would you most like to have dinner with if you could choose anybody?
Casey J. Cornelius:My grandmother. Yeah, I mentioned her before. Um she she had just such an amazing impact on my life. She was she was she was cool. And cool in a way that was uh loving and caring and supportive to others. Talking about never meet a stranger, I probably learned it from her. Um but she was also a professional cook. And she was a professional cook in a time in our world where where women women didn't do that. And man, she could cook. She was um the house my my mother's side of the family, my maternal grandmother uh that they grew up in, it was two levels. It was like a two-family, two, two-family home, and so she had two kitchens, and I I just remember like the Thanksgivings and Easter's and uh family suppers and stuff like that, where she would have both kitchens going all day, and she could just throw down, but um with no disrespect to my family, my favorite memories are not those family meals, it's the ones where it was just her and I. So I would love to have I I would have love to have one more of those.
Chris Molina:That's beautiful. Uh, three last questions, and we'll get you out of here. Um, third to last question. What is a pre-and-speaking engagement ritual that you have? We'll start with the post.
Casey J. Cornelius:Uh, if it goes well, ice cream. Um to the point where when I when I first taught my daughter Kendall about that that ritual, uh she she learned that after an engagement, she would never ask, did it go well or not? She would just simply say ice cream. And uh if the answer is yes, then then uh then she knew she knew the score. Um beforehand, I always get to the venue early, and I always sit in the back of the room. And I sit in the back of the room, it doesn't matter if it's big room, small room, whatever the venue is, and I try to imagine how that person in that seat is going to see and hear and feel the program. Because I I I want to get them. And that the best way to do it is is to imagine how they're going to um come come to the experience, where they're going to be, what they're going to see, what they're going to hear. That's my ritual. I always get there early and I always want to see the back of the room.
Chris Molina:You know, having seen you uh keynote and and remembering you sitting in the back, and that makes sense now. Um second to last question. What do you do to wind down?
Casey J. Cornelius:Some people will tell you I never do. Um man, you know, here's here's something that I'm really blessed with. And it has been this way my entire life. I I can sleep. I I don't have trouble when I go to sleep, I go to sleep. And when I wake up, I'm I'm good. So a lot of times I will go pretty hard until that moment that it's time to go to sleep, and then I'll go to sleep. Um, but one of the things that has been a ritual from from my earliest memories is I always have something playing in the background. When I was when I was young, it was the radio, talk radio. Now it's podcasts, like I'll throw on a podcast and just have it playing in the background, um, and I will fall asleep to some type of noise. That that's that's a ritual for me.
Chris Molina:And for the listeners that would love to connect with you, what is the best way that they can connect with you?
Casey J. Cornelius:Um first of all, the best way is when we meet in person, like let's shake hands, let's let's talk a little story, tell me about your journey. But before then, if you would like to, uh, you can find me on pretty much any social media app, but the ones that I go to most often, I mentioned LinkedIn, Casey J. Cornelius, uh Instagram, it's it's my name, C A S E Y J F C F L, which is short for ForCollegeForLife, CaseyJFCFL . Um, or if you want to be bold and and like sort of retro, you can add me on Facebook. Like I'm I'm a real person on Facebook. And if you add me on Facebook, added bonus, when it's your birthday, you're gonna get a message from me.
Chris Molina:Without doubt, every single year.
Casey J. Cornelius:Every single year and every single day.
Chris Molina:I don't miss. I don't miss a day. Well, if anybody else wants to read more about the topics and the programs that we discussed today that Casey offers, or some of the few that we just didn't have time to touch base on, you can head over to ForCollegForLife.com/ casey. That's C A S E Y, and you can learn more about him there. Casey, I really enjoyed this, and it was a pleasure hosting you today on the podcast.
Casey J. Cornelius:I I gotta tell you, I um uh a mutual friend of ours, Jay Harris, uh, who who gets paid to interview people said I would hate the experience of being on the other side of the mic. And I didn't, Chris, I didn't hate it. And I think that that's a testament to you. You asked some really good questions, and I appreciate it. Can can I do the little thing at the end though, where please do, please do. Okay, so the only thing that we ask folks is that if you liked this episode, please do the things that you're supposed to do with podcasts. Please make sure you like and share and subscribe, but also share it with people directly, right? So if you feel like there's anything that Chris and I talked about over the last hour-ish, um, please make sure that you give it to someone that it gets in their ears. And also let us know if there are any topics or conversations that you would like to hear on this podcast because we want to deliver the content that you find most beneficial. And after all these years, I'm humbled to say, Chris, thank you for making sure that I did my intro podcast as well. I really appreciate you.
Chris Molina:Hey, man, I'm I'm here to be the friend that you need, and if that is being the person that will not stop stop buzzing in your ear, I will be that human being for you. Sweet. You're that guy.
Casey J. Cornelius:You want to do you want to do the sign-off? No, go for it, go for it. Okay, all right. Folks, until next time, please be well. We look forward to talking to you again, and if this is the last podcast that you listen to from the for College for Life team in 2025, we wish you happy holidays, happy new year, and we'll see you again in 2026. Thanks, everybody.
Chris Molina:Bye.