Jeremy Paul: Leadership Speaker for College Students

On the latest episode of the ForCollegeForLife podcast, we sat down with Jeremy Paul to talk about leadership, belonging, and what it really means to show up. His message is simple but powerful… leadership isn’t about having it all figured out. It’s about showing up, trying, asking, reflecting, and trusting the process. Through his “unpolished leadership” philosophy, Jeremy reminds us that growth is messy, and the moments that shape us most are often the ones where we feel the least prepared. 

We also explored how connection, especially among men, needs to go beyond surface-level environments. Community can’t just exist on Saturdays… it has to be built every day through real conversations, vulnerability, and accountability. When we create spaces where people feel safe to show up as they are, we don’t just build better leaders… we build stronger, more connected communities.

Learn more about Jeremy's programs at: ForCollegeForLife.com/Jeremy

Transcript

[00:00:00]  Casey J. Cornelius: Hey everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of the ForCollegeForLife podcast. My name is Casey Cornelius. I'm the founder and president ForCollegeForLife, and I get the distinct privilege and opportunity to interview our team. The speakers and consultants who are truly recognized as America's leading voices.

Today I get the opportunity to interview one of our newest team members, somebody that I have a lot of respect for. I, I'm, I'm really excited for this one 'cause I know in all of the podcast recordings, I always learn something new or, or different about folks, even those that I've known for years and years.

So we're, we're gonna get to the podcast here in just a second. But before we get started, I would love to tell you a little bit about the guests today. Jeremy Paul is a speaker and educator who believes leadership isn't about perfection. It's about showing up, trying, asking, reflecting, and trusting. By embracing an unpolished leadership philosophy, he helps students and professionals acknowledge the human elements of growth and discover that authentic leadership begins long before titles appear next to their names.

His programs emphasize belonging, vulnerability, and authentic connection, encouraging individuals to lead with empathy and courage in every community. They're a part of. Jeremy currently serves as the associate director of Student Life at Grand Valley State University, where he leads initiatives in leadership development, fraternity and sorority life and student engagement, a presidential fellow for campus vibrancy.

A word that I love by the way. And Gallup certified Clifton strengths coach. He has facilitated programs nationwide, focused on belonging, community, and action based leadership. His work was recognized by Alpha Sigma Alpha, which named him the 20 24 20 25 outstanding fraternity and sorority advisor of the year.

Jeremy is a proud member of Phi Delta Theta Fraternity. He brings humor, honesty, and heart to every conversation, reminding audiences that authentic leadership isn't about having it all figured out. Thank goodness. It's about choosing to show up again and again. Jeremy is a proud alumnus of both Otterbein University and Ohio University.

Please, please, please welcome Jeremy Paul. 

[00:02:15] Jeremy Paul: How's it going, my friend? 

[00:02:17]  Casey J. Cornelius: Man, I'm doing so well, Jeremy. You know, your bio is, uh, super impressive. I wanted to make sure that I get everything right when, when I read those things. I'm not always the best person at reading scripts and, and stuff like that, but there's so much that's packed into this.

I just wanna start, did I do okay? 

[00:02:33] Jeremy Paul: I think you nailed it, and if you can't tell, I am a recovering over-involved student myself, so I, I continued to carry that through my professional experience as well. It might seem. 

[00:02:43]  Casey J. Cornelius: For sure. No, and, and a lot to unpack here, but I also wanna pull back the curtain just a little bit.

Jeremy is also a, a really successful podcast host, so I know when we hit record, I, I have to like up my game a little bit too to make sure, uh, that I'm, that I'm carrying the water to, to make this a good episode too. So, like, if, if Jeremy, if I don't you, you're gonna check me on this one, right? 

[00:03:08] Jeremy Paul: Oh, absolutely.

We're we're gonna bring it. We're gonna bring it today, my friend. 

[00:03:12]  Casey J. Cornelius: Let's go back in time. What do he say? Let's go back to, let's do it, Jeremy at Otterbein. Maybe even before. What, what were you, like, what, what was the, the north star of your, of your journey in getting involved in campus and, and seeing student affairs and, and helping students as being a career option?

[00:03:31] Jeremy Paul: Yeah, so I, I started again, you know, at Otterbein University and found myself to be pretty enthralled with just the overall college experience, right? Otterbein is a small liberal arts school out in central Ohio, and I am originally from Westerville, Ohio, which is where Otterbein is located. And so for me.

At the time my family was supposed to be moving up to Michigan and so it was the perfect opportunity for me to go to a school where it would feel like I wasn't leaving home, but home was leaving me and I could be in a space that felt comfortable and you know, a space that I understood. And at the time, you know, I had a grandfather who was, was dealing with a cancer battle and it felt appropriate for me to stay closer to home.

I was looking at a few other schools, but decided to stick around good old Westerville and the quiet, peaceful village that is Otter Divine University. And immediately. Fell in love with the experience and I had a ton of folks confused as to why I was living on campus when I was from Westerville. And, and I think that for me, living on campus and being able to, uh, you know, experience everything that that has to offer and be able to be developed in a way that would not have happened if I wouldn't have been in that space was the thing that really made me fall in love with what college life could offer to, uh, myself and my development.

And then I decided that I wanted to extend that and offer that to other folks. And, and that was where I really started to dive in and, and do too much, as some people might have told me when I was in college. I remember, uh, actually my, my mentor, I was an orientation leader my first year of college going into the summer, and my mentor had written me a letter.

It was one of. Feel good fun, you know, letter to, to you to celebrate the, the accomplishment of being an orientation leader. Right? And in that letter she said, you do realize that you have four years here, right? So you do realize that you have, you have time to make an impact. You don't have to do it all right now.

Pace 

[00:05:17]  Casey J. Cornelius: yourself. Pace yourself. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:05:19] Jeremy Paul: Well, and so I took that personally. I took that personally and decided that, um, that I was going to do everything. And, you know, we laugh about it today, but, you know, I, I was an ra, I was an orientation leader. I was a two term student government president during my time at Otterbein.

I, I did as much as I possibly could and I soaked it all in and for me. That was when I started to learn that there were folks who were invested in making sure that the people, the students who were doing that were well, that they were developing, that they were learning. And in that moment I realized that this is a profession that I felt drawn to and I felt moved to, to, uh, you know, a.

Moved to approach, I guess is the best way I can think to describe it. And so I began to look into different academic programs, things like that, and ended up down in, in good old Athens, Ohio, where I got my master's degree in college student personnel. And that experience is one that I will treasure forever.

Uh, I was not originally admitted into my graduate program. As a matter of fact, actually, this might be the thing that you learned today. Um, I was not originally admitted. I wasn't admitted because I hadn't placed with an assistantship. And I'll tell you what I went to, again, Otter Bys small school. I was familiar with what was going on in the bricks of Athens.

I was a little bit nervous to, to apply for a fraternity, sorority, life assistantship at the time, and I didn't apply for it initially and didn't match with an assistantship at first. And then I got a reach out from Kristen Curtis, who had, mm-hmm. Asked me to apply for. For the role at, uh, at Ohio, and I applied for it, got the role, and I haven't looked back since.

I've fallen in love with, with fraternity and sorority life and just the experience that it can bring to students. And so it's where I found my professional calling to be. So that's how we got here to some degree. But I also, even to peel it back even a little bit further, I, because I think it informed so much of who I am.

You know, I grew up, I was, I was an athlete growing up, you know, that was a fascinating identity to hold, especially then. Had a real glee experience where I had concussions my sophomore year of high school and decided I was gonna be a choir and theater kid, right? And so I think that you could probably tell if you, you probably can tell I'm a recovering choir and theater kid, but nevertheless, that those things are so foundational for me as well, and so important that I throw that in there here too.

[00:07:38]  Casey J. Cornelius: There's, there's so much about this, Jeremy. I actually learned a couple of things about you, so let's, let's, let's unpack it just a little bit, um, in, in no uncertain like terms, but, but certainly no certain order as well. First of all, shout out Kristen, for, for finding Jeremy and, and giving him that nudge.

Um, that's, uh, I, I sure am glad that you did. So, um, in, in my humble opinion, being a resident advisor is the hardest job on any college campus. So first of all. Tip my cap to you for, um, for, for being the RA position. But you glossed over something that I think most people were like, wait, wait, did he say that you were a two term student government president?

[00:08:15] Jeremy Paul: That. That's right. Yes. Yeah. I did that for two years. And it's funny because I actually remember weighing whether or not to run again for a second term, and I was weighing that between, you know, I'd finally started to listen to some advice, right. I had listened to some advice where folks were saying, you might be in too deep, you might be doing too many things, and Otterbein, you know, these small liberal arts schools.

Throw students into various different roles. And one of those roles that I had my senior year was I was actually a hall director. I managed a residence hall. I had Wow. I had RA staff that I supervised. I was on duty. Um, I also would note not something I would recommend probably for, uh, for folks that age, uh, who maybe don't have the appropriate training, but it was so.

Developmental for me in the, at the time. And so I had made the decision that I wanted to continue doing that, but didn't feel like I could do that and be a student senate president at the same time, as you can imagine. And I had mentioned that to my student senate advisor who had given me the the challenge to say, do you need to be doing both of those things?

And I think what she realized, the thing that I was gonna do was, was the housing thing. She was like, well, maybe you could do both still. Maybe you could. So, um, do both. And so I did, and so it was, yeah, I mean, I think you learn so much in those moments, right? And, and I'm sure we'll get into some of those stories, but I think that, you know, I, I learned how to navigate conversations and dialogues across difference in a way that I don't think I would've gotten in any other way.

I was able to be a part of some pretty major conversations around the institution. I was a part of the hiring committee that hired our, our president, uh, who, you know, has still been there since I left. And so those are the kind of things that I look back and I'm kind of amazed by the influence that I was able to have as a student.

But I also think that that's why I love this work so much because we, we need to be taking care of these students. We need to be taking care of those students who are doing exactly that. And as somebody who. Has been that student was that student. I see the immense value in providing a lot of care development and support to the students who are volunteering because even if they're getting paid, we both know that it is nowhere near the the amount that they are owed on market for the work that they're doing.

Mm-hmm. And so I always tell our students like, this is what I want you to get out of this. I want you to get development out of this because if you're just here for the experience, that's great. I want you to be able to talk about how that experience shaped who you are foundationally to your core. 

[00:10:32]  Casey J. Cornelius: Folks, if you, if you're not yet familiar with Jeremy, please make sure you visit ForCollegeForLife.com/jeremy to learn more about him, his signature programs, uh, all the stuff I, I, I guess I want to, um, maybe make an observation that, that.

That some listening to this might make Jeremy, uh, and then kind of lead into a question about some of your signature work. You know, it sounds like you're somebody who all along has had a very full plate, has balanced all of these things, um, overachiever in some ways, probably perfectionist in other ways like that would, that would be the observation that I think that people would make.

But, you know. Some of your most signature work is around, let's call it the messiness of leadership, so, mm-hmm. You want to talk a little bit about what unpolished leadership. Uh, is and, and what it looks like in, in practice. 

[00:11:26] Jeremy Paul: Well, the reason I can talk about it in a way that makes it sound like I was nailing it and like knocking it out of the park is because I spent the last however many years reflecting on those experiences, right?

But the reality is, is when I was in 'em, I don't know that you would necessarily have looked at me and said, that is somebody who has their stuff together. That is somebody who has it all figured out because in so many cases I wasn't. Right. You know, I think, um, you know, specifically I think about, you know, the, in, in my program, you know, unpolished leadership, own Your Mess.

I talk about a story from my serving as a student senate president where I. You know, we faced a pretty significant community tragedy in Westerville in 2017 where, uh, two police officers were killed in the line of duty. And at a small town like Westerville and at a college community like, like Westerville was, there was a look to the community, to the campus community to respond.

And I promise you that at that stage in my life, and I even think today. I'm not prepared to be the person to handle that perfectly, and I, I surely wasn't when I was a student. Right. But I knew that I had to show up somehow, some way to lead when the, the moment called for it. And so I learned through that experience, through other experiences that sometimes it's just a matter of showing up and trying.

Right. Asking questions of, of the folks that are supporting you. Reflecting on what you learned from that experience, but then trusting that you're where you need to be and where you're supposed to be. Those are the kind of experiences that I think back to, and I think Wow. Like that's what being unpolished and showing up looked like.

Right? And I still do it today. I'm, I'm put in rooms where I'm not necessarily the content expert on X, Y, or Z, but I'm the person who's willing to show up. And I have found that when I'm willing to show up, a lot of the things that I alluded to earlier. The involvements, the, the passions, they didn't start from a place of expertise.

They started from a place of curiosity. They started from a place of, of wanting to explore who I was and who I could be as a leader, and sometimes that really did just look like showing up every single piece of my mess included. 

[00:13:29]  Casey J. Cornelius: Hmm. So let's imagine that you're, um, uh, a student leader listening to this conversation, or you're someone who's aspiring to, uh, to, to a leadership role.

You know, show up sounds like really easy advice. Um, but it typically runs into the, uh, the, the roadblock of fear, apprehension, imposter syndrome. You know, what's, what's the nugget? What, what do you wanna whisper to that person who's like, I. I, I think I need to show up, but there's X or Y or z. 

[00:14:03] Jeremy Paul: Well, I think if you're waiting for the moment to be perfectly ready, it's probably gonna pass you by.

Right? I think that I have never been put into a leadership position where I was ready to navigate it a hundred percent. Right? I think that there's always going to be a part of us that is, is still learning and developing, and if we're waiting for the moment to get going, I mean, I, I think the speaking thing for me is a perfect example of this, right?

I am a campus professional and have been a campus professional for a number of years. And I have been, as, you know, exploring this speaking thing for a number of years. And eventually, finally I was just like, damn it, I'm gonna show up and try. I'm just gonna do it. Because if I keep waiting for the moment where I feel like I've got this perfectly figured out, I'm never gonna do it.

And so I think that that's the nugget I would offer, right, is I always hear it's cheesy, but we often don't regret the things we do. We regret the things we don't do, right? We, we ruminate on those pieces rather than the, than, you know, if I try something and it doesn't go well. That's fine. I can walk away from that and feel okay about who I am.

I also always tell people that, you know, as far as trying is concerned, think about when you go to the mall, right? When you're looking for that perfect pair of jeans, you only try on a pair of jeans once, then after that bottom, and you wear 'em every time thereafter, right? And, and think about that, like just think about how many things that you've tried that have become a fabric of your life.

And think about the opportunities that you might be preventing yourself from, from experiencing by not showing up and trying. And I often find that when you can walk through that and talk through that, the value and the return on investment for showing up, even when it's scary, even when it feels risky, folks can oftentimes see that showing up is worth it.

[00:15:46]  Casey J. Cornelius: You know, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna tug this string a little further. I, I hope you're okay with it. So, not only for, for students who are listening to this podcast right now, by the way, shout out. Thank you all for listening. Um, but also professionals who might be listening to it, I have found in, in my lived experience, working with leaders of all capacities, but, but even the highest level, the folks who seem like they have it all together and have it all figured out.

Behind closed doors when they let down their guard, they even confess that they're not always a hundred percent comfortable or confident as well. Has that been your experience, like even someone that, that you think like, oh, this person that, like they've, they've got it made, they've got all this figured out.

Has it been your experience as well that those folks are sort of, um. It's swallowing hard and, and, and showing up. Um, e even when they don't feel like they're, they're perfectly comfortable or confident. 

[00:16:42] Jeremy Paul: Absolutely. I mean, I think as somebody who does that myself pretty often, right? I think that, you know.

Folks oftentimes look at leaders who can show up into a situation and can lead effectively and can lead from a human place. I think they look at them and they assume that that is who they show up as in every area of their life. And my reality, and I don't wanna speak for others, but I would make the assumption that others' reality as well is that that might not be the case.

I, I find that, you know, for me at least, I have my spaces where I do let myself be extra unpolished, where I let myself really. Be vulnerable and raw, right? Like, uh, like raw, undeveloped goods. And I think that being able to. Discern when is best to be in that Headspace versus in the unpolished leader who shows up.

Headspace is a leadership skill that folks can, can develop and learn, and I think that while it's maybe not easy to turn off, turn on emotional intelligence, I think that folks also look at folks in leaders who are emotionally intelligent or who are strong leaders and they think, well, that person can't possibly be having.

An emotionally intelligent response to this thing. And my I, what I always tell to people, I, I have a lot of folks who tell me that they think I'm an emotionally intelligent individual and I like to try to lead and speak from that place, but you should hear and see the thoughts that are in my head before they come out of my mouth.

Right? I think that that's the thing that, uh, you know, oftentimes we forget about is that there is that, that filter piece. In my head, I might not feel like I'm the leader who needs to show up, but there's something that happens between head to mouth that allows for me to show up as the leader I need to be in a moment that calls for it.

[00:18:24]  Casey J. Cornelius: Oh, it's, it's such a, a fantastic point. I think you, you, we only get better at that by, by practice, right? Um, 

[00:18:30] Jeremy Paul: absolutely. 

[00:18:31]  Casey J. Cornelius: Doing it over and over and over again and then all of a sudden it's like, okay, it's not that I'm ready, but I'm just more comfortable being. Less than ready for the situation. Right. Um, yeah, yeah.

There's, there's so much there. But then I guess the flip side of this, and, and, uh, you, you could tell me if I'm way off. I think that by. Realizing this from a, a leadership perspective, it also probably allows us a path to more grace and empathy for others when they don't knock it outta the park every single time when they react or act in a way that feels contrary or contradictory to, to give them some, um, uh, some, some space to grow as well.

Am I, am I, am I getting that part right? I 

[00:19:20] Jeremy Paul: think absolutely right, because I think that it's an experience that you can name and feel yourself if you've also put yourself through the ringer of getting comfortable with showing up when you're not exactly ready, right? I think you can look at a leader who does so and maybe makes a misstep and can acknowledge the discomfort that they probably felt going into that.

And then I think that that does allow for the room for grace, like you're mentioning, because I know what it's like to show up as a leader who's not ready. And so anytime somebody can do that with me or around me. I actually admire it more, right? I don't, I don't look for a leader who's gonna be entirely polished or perfect.

I appreciate when somebody can show up and say, this is what I'm coming to the table with, and if I'm off base, let me know. But this is who I'm coming to the table with as today, and, and it's informed by. Everything happening around me, and if I make a misstep, I hope that my team will have grace for me because I am still choosing in the, in the context of it all to show up.

And I think that that can go a long way, especially if, again, to your point, if I'm doing that regularly, I can identify when other people are doing the same. 

[00:20:24]  Casey J. Cornelius: I love that. Uh, folks, if you haven't yet already, please make sure ForCollegeForLife.com/jeremy, uh, learn more about his leadership work. I, I also wanna pull the thread if I can, a little bit, Jeremy, on something that I think you and I have in common.

Uh, and that is a deep love and admiration for fraternity and the role of fraternity in our lives, um, uh, shaping us, but then also having a desire to. To give back in meaningful ways. So, so let me start with sort of the softball and then we'll get into some of your work on, on the masculinity front. So can, can you talk about finding fraternity and, and the role that it had for you potentially as an undergrad, but also now into your professional life too?

[00:21:04] Jeremy Paul: Definitely, I mean, stop me if you've heard this one before, but I had zero desire to ever join a fraternity. Right. And I think that, you know, that is the reason why I love that I'm in this work now. I think that I, so I went to school and, and didn't really make it clear and in that first initial question, but I didn't join my fraternity until my sophomore year.

I, I found other. Same here. Same here. 

[00:21:29]  Casey J. Cornelius: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:21:30] Jeremy Paul: Yeah. And I know that the headquarters professionals who are listening to this conversation who are driven and driven to recruit and driven to, to bring people to the experience, they're gonna cringe when I say this. But for me, that was the best thing I could have done for myself because I don't know that first year, Jeremy.

Joining a fraternity would've been the best case scenario for first year, Jeremy. Um, and, and I'm grateful for that when I look back. But Otterbine is a unique community in that every organization aside from two are, are local fraternities. And so I actually didn't even know about fight out my first year as a collegiate.

Right. And so my sophomore year, I actually, and this is where I think. You know, I urge fraternity men constantly to, to get out of their silos because the way fraternity found me was through my orientation leader experience. When I looked around the room and I recognized that of the 12 male identifying folks who were in the room, I was the only one who wasn't affiliated with a fraternity.

I was like, wait a minute. Wow. Something must be happening in that space that I didn't realize or recognize. And maybe it's Otterbein specific or maybe it's. More specific to, uh, just the fraternity experience in general. And I've learned that the latter is true as I have navigated my career. But I was like, okay.

And I looked around and four, four of the guys were phidel. And I said, I need to check that organization out when I come back to school in the fall. And I did. And I went through the recruitment process and joined my sophomore year, and I fell in love with what fraternity could be, right. I saw. A room full of people who shared so many, shared so many things in common values, things like that, but also had so many unique differences.

And the conversations that I had in the walls surrounded by the walls of my fraternity house are some of the conversations that I think I wish I could be having more of today. Right. I think about if you're a student and you're listening to this right now, especially if you're a fraternity man. I, I envy the conversations that I hope you're having within the walls of your fraternity house right now, especially in the context of our world and, and I think that fraternity provides such a meaningful opportunity for men to better themselves and better men as a whole.

Right? I think that. You know, I'm reminded often of the will to change my bell hooks. If, if you're familiar with the piece, Casey, I, I know you are. But, um, for those who are listening, you know, it, it begins to identify that the first, the first victim I think of, of patriarchy is, is the fact that we as men.

Kill off a part of ourselves before we start to engage with a greater world. And I think fraternity is a space where we can actually start to challenge that narrative a little bit and, and begin to rebuild some of those pieces of ourselves that we've killed in order to fit this like stereotypical.

Male gaze that you know, is so prevalent in society. And so I think that fraternity is an answer to so many of the problems that we see right now, societally and I, I love being able to explore that with men and with fraternity men specifically because. You know, and I know it, when you get into these rooms and you start having these conversations, they want to have these conversations.

They just don't know how to, nobody's given them permission to, and when you open the door to that, my gosh. Like it just a floodgate. Right. And I think back to while fraternity in, in this sense is, you know, a Greek organization, a a Greek social organization. I think back to even my experiences in athletics, right?

Playing football in my freshman year of high school, right? I think about the way in which, I don't know if y'all have ever like been around a, a 13, 14-year-old boy, but like. They're a problem. Like they're weird. Like they're, they're strange. And so I think about just being in a choir room full of my teammates and having to walk across, uh, walk in front of the rest of my teammates.

And I would have to read an accountability card every week to the whole team that said. Here's one thing I'm gonna do to be a better football player this week. Here's one thing I'm gonna do to be a better man this week. And you had to pick somebody to hold you accountable to that in the room that week.

And I learned that when I was a freshman in high school, and I think that that's the kind of thing that we could be sprinkling into fraternity spaces as well. To show folks that we can grow and develop as men in community with one another if we just buckle up and have the conversations right. And I love the fact that we get a chance to have those kind of conversations with college students as regularly as we do.

[00:26:02]  Casey J. Cornelius: I, I'm, I'm smiling ear to ear, Jeremy. I, I can't even, can't even contain it. Remind me, you said that you came to fraternity in 2017, right? 

[00:26:12] Jeremy Paul: I, I joined my fraternity in 2016, so I'm gonna be exactly this year. Yeah. 

[00:26:16]  Casey J. Cornelius: Nice. Okay. Congratulations. So, so that was really, I, I think, um, I show some bias. I think that there was a real, like split in the space time continuum at that, you know, that era where the conversation in, in the greater society was.

Um, men as problems, right? And I know that that still has some, some ripples today, but there was, there was a pushback. Um, instead looking at problems that men have and the ways in which we can be better. And broadly speaking, fraternity, whether that be, as you say, like, you know, the, the formalized Greek letter organizations or teams, or just simply a collection of men, um, centered around something larger than themselves, not only a number.

But purpose and value that became the place in which. You could demonstrate that, um, that, that men and, and masculinity could have a different narrative other than just this thing that was playing out, uh, in the, the broader society. And that's, you know, I'm, I'm really excited to hear. What you're doing to sort of pick up the torch, um, in this conversation and lead it into the future.

And I, I think that that kind of brings me to talk about, uh, one of your other signature programs if, if you'd like. Uh, and that's every day is for the Boys. Um, and, and it's, uh, the subtitle is Redefining Brotherhood. So obviously every day for Every Day is where the Boys Is, is a play on, uh, another title.

But, uh, I wanna make space for you to talk about, you know, sort of what the, the overarching message of that is. 

[00:27:51] Jeremy Paul: I think your reference to that, that shift in the FaceTime continuum, I, I think that it's also around a time where you started to see different, what I'll say are like sports, media kind of companies become, become like mainstream, especially with young men.

And one of the things that came from that, you alluded to it, is the whole concept that Barstool created around Saturdays are for the boys. Right. And it's great. It gives us language in a way that I think men maybe haven't. And let me actually rewind. I'll say that the, the messaging behind that can be great, but I think that where it shifted unfortunately was to a place of Saturday is the only day for us to be in community with each other and mm-hmm it be okay.

And so I think that the every day is for the boys program is really an opportunity for. Men to and fraternity men specifically, but I think also just any group of men to be able to start to challenge some of these narratives around the fact that. You can only have these kind of bonds or these kinds of relationships with your male peers around social activities, around alcohol, around partying, things like that.

Right. I think that that unfortunately is where that language shifted us to and, and it's fun and it's, you hear all the things like Ferta or whatever have you, and I think I've never said that out loud by the way, so a little bit odd to say out loud, but you hear all that kind of stuff. It becomes a part of the.

Like lexicon, right? Of young men, you, you hear it everywhere you go. If I had a dollar for every flag I have seen in a residence hall room or in a fraternity house, I could probably retire by now. Right, 

[00:29:33]  Casey J. Cornelius: right, 

[00:29:34] Jeremy Paul: right. And instead, right, like by using language that's familiar to us, to then challenge, well, why do we think that this can only happen in certain environments?

How can we create other environments where we have the psychological safety as men to have these conversations in a way that can be just as productive as maybe some of the other forms of, of comradery that are signaled through other messaging, right? And so that program really is all about, you know, challenging again.

Narratives around it's, you know, weird or it's quote unquote gay to be in community with your male peers. Right. We, we challenge that a little bit. And again, men are more ready for those kind of conversations due to shifts in social norms than they really have ever have been before. And I worry sometimes that, that, that might be regressing.

And that's where I think that this work is so important now. Right. I think that. There is an opportunity for us to begin to interrupt some of those patterns around masculinity that are being formed, especially amongst young men who are maybe experiencing isolation that I, I think is really important that we invest in.

Right. I think that. This program specifically allows for us to recognize that relationships with men and our peers can actually be an opportunity for us to have dialogue around how we can be better and be challenged by people who we know care about us and have set a foundation of care through, uh, coaching or through, uh.

Challenge and support kind of lens. And I think that there's real power in what we can create if we lean into recognizing that these relationships can extend well beyond a Saturday night at a club, at a bar, at a fraternity house. I know the DJ is killing it in the frat house basement. Also, my least favorite word is frat.

Can we That's a little bit of a side sidebar. 

[00:31:23]  Casey J. Cornelius: Yes. 

[00:31:23] Jeremy Paul: Yes. Um, if, if you are a student of mine, you know that that to me is a cuss word. And so, I'm sorry. You might have to put an explicit rating on this show, Casey, because I just dropped a cuss word on, on your show, but, um, no, I, I just, I, I think that there's real opportunity for men to invest in themselves and in their brothers in a way that maybe takes some intention and takes some challenge, but I think men are ready for it.

[00:31:46]  Casey J. Cornelius: You know, your work really does, um, does my heart well because again, um, re remembering sort of the earliest iterations of like, do men even need conversations like this? Like I, I remember those pushbacks and challenges and so forth and, and to know that that good people like you or, um. Advancing this conversation.

I, I, I want to kind of preemptively push back on what I suspect is going to be one of the potential, like, you know, critiques on this. Oh, so Jeremy, are you saying that like, we shouldn't be hanging out on Saturday and sitting on the couch watching the game? You know, we shouldn't be doing those things. We, we should only be focused on X and y and z or are you saying.

That's cool to do on Saturday, but also there's Sunday through through Friday, uh, that, that we can invest in as well. 

[00:32:38] Jeremy Paul: It's a great question. I'll let, I'll let the listeners in on a little secret for the program in that it starts with a disclaimer and the disclaimer is, I'm not coming for your Saturdays or for the boys flag.

I, I think that there's value in those social environments and I think that when done right, they're powerful and I think to your point. Yes. And there is more to this. They unjust that. And if we can find a way to cultivate environments that are, are safe and healthy and, and fun and vibrant, I'll bring that word back on a Saturday.

Yeah. Uh, it doesn't necessarily mean that we shouldn't also be investing in what that experience is Sunday through Friday as well. Right. So I think that the latter is true of, of what you, what you, what you shared there. 

[00:33:19]  Casey J. Cornelius: Man, I, I just, I love this so much. Again, could probably nerd out and spend hours just on this topic of, of masculinity and what it looks like through the lens of fraternity.

Again, whether that be, uh, Greek letter, uh, organizations or just collections of men. Uh, uh, folks, if you haven't yet, please make sure again, go to ForCollegeForLife.com/jeremy. I suspect, uh, at this point, either in a conversation around leadership or around masculinity, there's probably enough that has, uh, made you want to learn more.

By the way, we won't even be able to get into this one. There's also a fantastic titled program that Jeremy offers as well called Dysfunction. Dysfunction. What's your function And it challenges one of the. The, the biggest missteps of leadership and culture and so forth. And that is the phrase, we've always done it this way, but, but maybe we'll come back to it.

Yeah, exactly. Speaking of, uh, putting an explicit wording on it, um, maybe we'll come back, I know, into another episode just on, on that one. Uh, Jeremy, uh, would love to get you outta here on some, some rapid fire. Get, you know, you kind of questions. Are you, uh, you ready to hear these? 

[00:34:22] Jeremy Paul: Let's do it my friend.

I'm excited. 

[00:34:25]  Casey J. Cornelius: So I know that you're busy. I, I know that your schedule's packed, but let's imagine for a second that you have an entire day to binge watch anything. What do you choose? 

[00:34:36] Jeremy Paul: I think that I'm probably, I'm probably watching a lot of Diners Drive-ins and Dives. I think I'm, man, there's something, there's something so cool.

I think about learning a place through its food. And I don't know if you've ever done this and maybe I'm, maybe there'll be some folks listening and they're like, I do this, and other folks are gonna be like, this guy is weird. And I'm okay with either reaction that you have. I think whenever I travel, I will look up if the city I'm traveling to has any locations that have been featured on Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives.

And I will frequent them. I will go, I'll make sure I check them out. It's, it's kind of like a must go for me, as silly as that might sound. But I, I always enjoy it. And I have found too, I just, like, I am relaxed by cooking. I love to cook in general, and so being able to watch other folks do it and I learn stuff from it, I, I always enjoy to be able to just spend some time watching some Triple D my friend.

[00:35:33]  Casey J. Cornelius: You know, I, I have heard that one of the things that Guy FII does, um, when, when they get done filming, uh, the segment for that show is that he'll actually sit down with the restaurant owners and prepare them for in the coming weeks and months when that episode airs the increase in business and so forth that they're going to have to.

To sustain. Right? Because, you know, they, they, they go from sometimes being, uh, unrecognized or unknown to all of a sudden being blasted, uh, blasted on television. Nice. And, and then preparing for success sometimes is even harder than preparing for failure. So it, it, yeah. I I think that that's a really neat, um, elements of that show too.

[00:36:14] Jeremy Paul: Absolutely. 

[00:36:16]  Casey J. Cornelius: Alright, second question, Jeremy, what is the most used app on your phone? 

[00:36:21] Jeremy Paul: Oh, I wanna lie to you. 

[00:36:24]  Casey J. Cornelius: Okay. Do, do, do the lie and then tell the truth. Go ahead. 

[00:36:27] Jeremy Paul: Okay. Well, the truth, I'll start with the truth. The truth is probably TikTok. I'm working on it, I'm working on hard. I, I don't love it about me, but I'm working on it.

And I think right now, and, and really just like anytime that a hockey season is happening and I'm gonna. Probably be also refreshing the NHL app quite a bit. Uh, those are probably my top two. I am trying to get better at Instagram, so if anybody has any tips or tricks at how to get better at being a good Instagram user, you can send those tips and tricks my way.

[00:36:58]  Casey J. Cornelius: Ah, there you go. Well, we're gonna, we're gonna actually get to that here in just a couple of seconds. So, uh, so tick TikTok and the NHL, by the way, the NHL one also, um, uh, this is a challenge to anyone listening. Make sure that you Google, uh, or search for Jeremy's podcast that, that he co-hosts, uh, in relation to hockey as well.

It's a, it's a real winner. So, Jeremy, you mentioned Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives. It kind of begs another question. Who would you most like to have dinner with? 

[00:37:27] Jeremy Paul: Oh, I, it probably, so I, unfortunately, I'm gonna bring the vibes down a little bit, but I'm gonna bring 'em back up. So I lost my mom six years ago to cancer.

And so for me, I think it would be so disingenuous for me to say that the, the person in this world who I wanna share another meal with is absolutely my mom. Uh, but I also am grateful that I get to carry her around in every meal that I have from now on. So I, you know, maybe that's a little bit of a cop out answer my friend, but I think that it's the only one that really feels right.

[00:37:56]  Casey J. Cornelius: It's a beautiful answer. Okay. S second, like follow up question to that. Uh, if you had that, that dinner with mom again, what would you, what would you have? What, what would be on the menu? 

[00:38:07] Jeremy Paul: Oh, oh, this is good. This is good. I actually, I think it would probably have to be something Italian. It would have to be something Italian.

It was always her favorite. And I'm pretty, I'm pretty keen to it myself. So a little chicken parm moment. My one claim to fame is the chicken parm that I made. If folks listen, this is shifting way too hockey and so I apologize for that. But if folks are fine familiar, that's the hockey analyst, John Gras.

Uh. He has rated my chicken parm before and so I think that that is probably the route I have to go to. He said it was a HL level chicken parm, so about ready to get the call up to the big league, so I'll take it. So I'd probably, and I'd probably wanna make it too, I always loved cooking for my mom. I love, that's like my love language is cooking for the people that I care about and cooking for the people that I love.

And so I think that I would hope to be able to, to put together a Michelin star quality plate of chicken parm for the two of us. 

[00:38:58]  Casey J. Cornelius: That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I, I, um, thank you for sharing that and sharing your humanity there too. Of course. Um, Jeremy, what do you do to wind down like it's the end of a busy day?

Do you have any particular rituals or anything that signals to, to your brain and body that it's, that it's time to start to, uh, reprogramming for the next day, shutting down? What do you do to wind. 

[00:39:19] Jeremy Paul: I think being a West Michigander, this, this answer kind of takes different forms in different seasons. So when it's a little bit nicer out, when, uh, you know, it's, you know, not quite as snowy as it can be sometimes here, I always like to end my day with a walk.

I always like to be able to go out to take a stroll. I live pretty close to a park, uh, that has some really beautiful natural ravines. And so I love to go there to just let my mind kind of unravel a little bit and let the day kind of process and, and really kind of compound the memories from the day. If we're in a season where things are a little bit chillier and maybe there's snow opportunities, I don't necessarily do that, but I do like to, you know, just I.

Connect with friends, loved ones. Kind of just do a quick check in with the people who matter most to me, see how their day was and maybe read a little bit myself. And I'm a big fan of incense. I like to just lighten incense. Mm. And uh, just kind of let myself sit and rest and will listen to some. I'm, I'm not the world's best meditator, but I like to try to just let things mellow out and, and let myself just be present with the thoughts of the day.

I think that that happens naturally for me when I'm going out on walks and things like that. So I have to kind of, kind of create that environment for myself when, when the weather's not quite what I need it to be. So those are the two, the two answers I'll give. 

[00:40:45]  Casey J. Cornelius: Well as a, as a fellow Ohioan who, who now claims Michigander status, I, I will say that what you described about walking outside and, um, all, all the other kinda stuff that's, that's like July, that's, you know, so 

[00:40:58] Jeremy Paul: Right.

[00:40:59]  Casey J. Cornelius: The, the other, the other months of the year, we have to, we have to figure out something. No, that's not true. Listen, I, I don't want the Michigan Chamber of Commerce to get mad at us. Uh, Michigan is fantastic. It's beautiful all 12 months outta the year. It is particularly beautiful. Of course, in the summer.

So, uh, folks, if you've not yet one last plug, please make sure you go to ForCollegeForLife.com/jeremy. But Jeremy, last question to get you out of here. How can listeners best connect with you? 

[00:41:24] Jeremy Paul: Yeah, so LinkedIn is a platform that I'm on pretty regularly. You can always find me there if you are an Instagram user, and again, if you have tips and tricks on, on how to be more active there, I'd, I'd hear you out on it.

Uh, I am on Instagram at JeremyUnPaulished. It's a little bit of a pun on my name. So it's J-E-R-E-M-Y-U-N-P-A-U-L-I-S-H-E-D. I also have a website in addition to my page on the ForCollegeForLife website. So similar jeremy un polish.com and. Otherwise, uh, you know, always happy to connect with folks via email as well.

Uh, that email is jp@jeremyunpaulished.com. 

[00:42:03]  Casey J. Cornelius: Love it. Jeremy. I gotta tell you, we've known each other for years. I've known so much about you, but still got to learn a lot even today. So folks, if you enjoyed this podcast, getting to know more about Jeremy and his signature work and his story and evolution and the vibrancy of his work.

Please make sure you do the things you're supposed to do with this podcast, like share, subscribe, but also if you could do us two other favors. First, please make sure that you get this episode into the ears of people who need to hear it, because we think that that's really important. But also, if you'd like to know more.

Or if you're like, Hey, I wish that you asked, uh, more about this topic, please let us know because the thing that we're committed to is to also give you the content that you find most valuable. And we are happy to record as many of these podcasts as humanly possible in order to cover those things. But until next time, as always, like to say, thank you so much for listening and be well.

We'll talk to you soon.